# Black Parents Demand that Catholic School Beat Their Kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 30, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515 "2011-03-30T15:18:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/81 "2011-04-04T22:39:42Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Strong evidence against the propriety of this kind of punishment is the way that people who defend their own beatings so often end up uttering non-sequitant nonsense like this. It’s a sign of abuse, you know… I wasn’t beaten. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/82 "2011-04-05T01:01:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I wasn’t beaten. Okay. Just don’t hit me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/83 "2011-04-05T03:35:34Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Okay. Just don’t hit me. why would I hit you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/84 "2011-04-05T04:11:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I wasn’t beaten. A nun hit you in the face in front of other children because she didn’t approve of something you said. Do you actually _approve_ of this method of “discipline”? How do you suppose most people would react if their child came home and said this happened to them in school. What do you suppose would happen if you did this in public with your own child? You. Were. Beaten. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/85 "2011-04-05T04:33:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > A nun hit you in the face in front of other children because she didn’t approve of something you said. Do you actually _approve_ of this method of “discipline”? How do you suppose most people would react if their child came home and said this happened to them in school. What do you suppose would happen if you did this in public with your own child? > You. Were. Beaten. She smacked me on the mouth. Yes I approve of what she did. I was not beaten in any way shape or form. How do you suppose my parents would react? My mom was a good friend of this nun to the end of her days. That’s how she reacted. It mirrored the relationship the kids have to this day, 40 years later. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/86 "2011-04-05T04:37:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > She smacked me on the mouth. Yes I approve of what she did. I was not beaten in any way shape or form. > > How do you suppose my parents would react? My mom was a good friend of this nun to the end of her days. That’s how she reacted. It mirrored the relationship the kids have to this day, 40 years later. Is there a reason you answered a question I _didn’t_ ask, while avoiding the others? Is hitting a child in the mouth proper discipline for something they said? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/87 "2011-04-05T04:40:54Z")
Imagine for a moment, how the dynamic of the situation changed. A kid who would have remembered the insult for years was vindicated in front of everybody while a kid who needed to learn a lesson got it all in the same moment. Quick, simple, accurately applied punishment and lesson all rolled into one. Done. I look back on it with the admiration and respect she was due. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/88 "2011-04-05T04:42:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there a reason you answered a question I _didn’t_ ask, while avoiding the others? Is hitting a child in the mouth proper discipline for something they said? Yes, I answered it. You’re now trying to parse words when it has been clear from everything I wrote that I approved of it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/89 "2011-04-05T04:45:11Z")
Imagine children learning a valuable lesson-it is alright to react with violence if someone says something you don’t approve of, violence should be the first resort, not the last. Your parents were taught this valuable lesson, so _of course_ they approved of the nun teaching the same lesson to you. And you still haven’t actually answered any of the questions I asked previously. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/90 "2011-04-05T04:47:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, I answered it. You’re now trying to parse words when it has been clear from everything I wrote that I approved of it. O.k., it is established that you approve of hitting children in the mouth for something they said. What about the questions concerning public reaction if this happened today in front of others? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/91 "2011-04-05T04:56:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > O.k., it is established that you approve of hitting children in the mouth for something they said. What about the questions concerning public reaction if this happened today in front of others? You mean like the people for whom the thread is about or the adults who I stay in contact with from the school I’ve talked about? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/92 "2011-04-05T05:08:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean like the people for whom the thread is about or the adults who I stay in contact with from the school I’ve talked about? I’m not talking about prepicked groups-I’m talking about the general public. How about out in the supermarket? Your child says something you deeply disapprove of, and your immediate reaction is to hit her/him in the mouth. What do you think would happen? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/93 "2011-04-05T05:13:55Z")
Hitting children gives them a lesson that hitting another person is fine. It is not. Teacher paddling is inexcusable. it debases the kid and the teacher as well. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/94 "2011-04-05T05:21:27Z")
I wonder if it’s some sort of weird sense of balance with some people. Their grandparents hit their parents, their parents hit them, and now they get their turn to hit someone who cannot fight back. To stop the cycle is to tell previous generations that they were bad parents, and a lifetime of forced respect is a damn hard cycle to break. When you add in the power that religion has in some communities, where children are taught that not respecting the nuns is akin to not respecting God himself, and that vicious merry-go-round is almost impossible to get off. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/95 "2011-04-05T05:25:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m not talking about prepicked groups-I’m talking about the general public. How about out in the supermarket? Your child says something you deeply disapprove of, and your immediate reaction is to hit her/him in the mouth. What do you think would happen? Now you’re asking me for my opinion on society at large. Where do I start? We live in a society where adults throw temper tantrums on a regular basis. I and my schoolmates were brought up differently by parents and teachers who knew how to crank out level-headed functional citizens. This is what the parents we are discussing want. they want this because they went to a real school and understand the environment they were brought up in works well. They are perfectly aware of the hell hole around them that is New Orleans. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/96 "2011-04-05T05:36:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Now you’re asking me for my opinion on society at large. Where do I start? We live in a society where adults throw temper tantrums on a regular basis. I and my schoolmates were brought up differently by parents and teachers who knew how to crank out level-headed functional citizens. This is what the parents we are discussing want. they want this because they went to a real school and understand the environment they were brought up in works well. They are perfectly aware of the hell hole around them that is New Orleans. And the merry-go-round music plays on and on and on.. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/97 "2011-04-05T05:46:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I wonder if it’s some sort of weird sense of balance with some people. Their grandparents hit their parents, their parents hit them, and now they get their turn to hit someone who cannot fight back. To stop the cycle is to tell previous generations that they were bad parents, and a lifetime of forced respect is a damn hard cycle to break. When you add in the power that religion has in some communities, where children are taught that not respecting the nuns is akin to not respecting God himself, and that vicious merry-go-round is almost impossible to get off. spanking is not hitting. Hitting is hitting. If I did something stupid and an Uncle heard the tale he’d cuff the back of my head and say “what were you thinking” and then mumble something in Italian. That’s not hitting and neither is spanking. And your fantasy about children being taught to respect nuns as something akin to God himself is asinine bigotry. Whether you can understand this or not nun’s are real people. They gain respect or lose it just like anybody else. You’re whole argument is personalized what-if nonsense. You can’t seem to understand that discipline is not about spanking. Spanking is just one of many tools used in the process. If kids don’t get a properly disciplined education then the end result is a bunch of psychiatrists or military school. One is going to write a prescription and the other is going to fast-track the discipline that was lacking in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/98 "2011-04-05T11:25:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > spanking is not hitting. Hitting is hitting. If I did something stupid and an Uncle heard the tale he’d cuff the back of my head and say “what were you thinking” and then mumble something in Italian. That’s not hitting and neither is spanking. > > And your fantasy about children being taught to respect nuns as something akin to God himself is asinine bigotry. Whether you can understand this or not nun’s are real people. They gain respect or lose it just like anybody else. You’re whole argument is personalized what-if nonsense. > > You can’t seem to understand that discipline is not about spanking. Spanking is just one of many tools used in the process. If kids don’t get a properly disciplined education then the end result is a bunch of psychiatrists or military school. One is going to write a prescription and the other is going to fast-track the discipline that was lacking in the first place. Is hitting a child in the mouth “spanking”? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/99 "2011-04-05T11:52:49Z")
I guess I should make my own position clear, since I think I’ve implied I’m anti-spanking. I’m actually not. I resist spanking as a very last resort, but I’m not opposed to it absolutely. With my own children, I use it only as a way to win compliance with other non-corporeal disciplinary measures. And it consists only in a couple of swats, and their strength is meant to illicit not so much of an “ouch” reaction as an “Oh shit he’s serious” reaction. And happily for me because I hate to do it, I’ve found that I only had to do this a few times, and since those incidents, compliance with non-corporeal punishments has become routine. One of my kids, in fact, never needed this. You put him in the corner, and he thinks he’s in a cage. The other kid, however, was a different story… I’m happy to see that the method I use is also advocated in the cites given above as the one supported by research–spanking only as a couple of relatively light swats meant to gain compliance with other non-corporeal punishments. Note, as well, that this method is said there to be _not better_ than three other non-corporeal methods for winning that compliance. I’ll be happy to continue reading the study to find out what those methods are, because a non-violent solution with equivalent results is, of course, always better. ---
**Author:** ![Whambulance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@Whambulance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whambulance)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515/100 "2011-04-05T13:15:52Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I’m appalled to hear that it wasn’t abolished decades ago, and throughout the USA. It’s backward and ignorant and educators _of all people_ should long since have read the evidence and stopped using barbaric methods. > > Yes, there are people who received it and still grew up healthy. Just because it doesn’t cause evey recipient to become a serial killer does not support it’s use. > > God help anyone who raises a hand to Celtling. Because its a far more important message to send to children that people from other cultures can step in and impose their way of life, culture and practices on you and your private school. Cleansing them of their barbaric ways may take dragging hundreds of individuals through the court system, dredging up as much negative press as possible and of course changing some of those pesky laws that protect their rights as a private organization, but at least I will sleep better over here in my state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-parents-demand-that-catholic-school-beat-their-kids/576515.md?page=6)