# Black people and cocoa butter **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 23, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544 "2008-04-23T14:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/1 "2008-04-23T14:10:56Z")
No no, VC03/TLDRWHATEVER has not hijacked my account. I am wondering about the apparent cultural connection between black people and cocoa butter. Going off of very limited data points, those being: 1. on the Comedy Central roast of Flava Flav, someone made a joke about the Roastmaster wearing cocoa butter that was met with general hilarity and an aside from the Roastmaster that he was indeed wearing cocoa butter; 2. on a number of songs by black artists that I have (several by gay men and/or drag queens FWIW) there are references to applying cocoa butter; 3. the African American gentleman sitting in front of me at the moment positively _reeks_ of it. So what’s the deal? Some cultural phenomenon that I as a clueless middle-class whitey know nothing about? How prominent is cocoa butter usage in the black community? Is this an American phenomenon or is it international? Apologies if this is phrased awkwardly. I intend no offense. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/2 "2008-04-23T14:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] No no, VC03/TLDRWHATEVER has not hijacked my account. [/QUOTE] Thank goodness!! The black friends I have/have had use lotion to keep from getting an “ashy” look. Looking “ashy” is when your knees and elbows get to looking, well, like they’ve been dusted with ashes. Just a normal part of skin cell elimination, dry skin etc. So cocoa butter seems to have earned a reputation as one of the best things to use to combat ashy-ness. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/3 "2008-04-23T14:57:29Z")
My understanding from a West African history professor is that cocoa butter is very widely used there for, you know, yo ashy ankles - which makes sense, because it’s easily available there. One assumes it has been in use there for quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/4 "2008-04-23T15:10:46Z")
My understanding is that “ashy” is simply the dead but not yet fallen skin cells that every one of us carries around on our skin. They’re simply more visible on dark skin. And yes, cocoa butter is a good and cheap moisturizer that’s marketed heavily in the “African” section of the drugstores around here which will (temporarily) wet down those dead skin cells so they aren’t visible. It’s also in plenty of products marketed to white people, but those products tend to have, at the moment, sugars (sorry, “active fruit concentrates”) and proteins (ahem - “Panthenol”, “tri-protein” or “rich aminos”) more heavily emphasized on their labels. It’s all just marketing decisions, not science driven differences between skin types. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/5 "2008-04-23T15:32:47Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] It’s all just marketing decisions, not science driven differences between skin types. [/QUOTE] Right, since there isn’t really any difference in black/white skin. If I look at my limbs in the right angle, I can see the “ashy” stuff, it’s just that I’m so pale nobody sees it. You could call it ‘stealth ash’. ---
**Author:** ![greatshakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@greatshakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greatshakes)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/6 "2008-04-24T16:39:21Z")
[QUOTE=NinetyWt] Right, since there isn’t really any difference in black/white skin. If I look at my limbs in the right angle, I can see the “ashy” stuff, it’s just that I’m so pale nobody sees it. You could call it ‘stealth ash’. [/QUOTE] Is this a whoosh?? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/7 "2008-04-24T16:42:51Z")
[QUOTE=greatshakes] Is this a whoosh?? [/QUOTE] I don’t think so. I’ve got dry flaky skin on my elbows and ankles as well. You just can’t see the white “ash” because my still-alive skin is nearly the same color. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lovely_Margo_Lane)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/8 "2008-04-24T16:43:47Z")
[QUOTE=greatshakes] Is this a whoosh?? [/QUOTE] Why would this be a whoosh? The ‘ashy’ still happens on pale skin, but it doesn’t show up because there’s not enough contrast. Instead it just looks a bit dry and peel-y if anything. Just like how pale dust shows up on dark furniture but you can’t see it as well on light surfaces- it’s still there. ETA- **WhyNot** is faster. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/9 "2008-04-24T16:45:49Z")
Stealth ash is the funniest thing that I’ve read on this board in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/10 "2008-04-24T16:57:58Z")
Hm, I’ve always rubbed coffee on my skin to eliminate the “stealth ash.” Why wouldn’t … oh. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/11 "2008-04-24T17:03:49Z")
My school has a predominantly black student body. We keep a bottle of lotion in every classroom and the kids make pretty liberal use of it. They can be extremely cruel to each other with comments about ashy skin and/or nappy hair. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/12 "2008-04-24T17:08:43Z")
My wife’s OB/GYN recommended cocoa butter for her stretch marks while he was pregnant and for her nipples while she was breast feeding. Seemed to work pretty good, and I use it on my ashy-ass elbows. Works better than hand lotion for me. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/13 "2008-04-24T17:49:30Z")
I’m white and I use a cocoa body butter from [fruits&passion](http://us.fruits-passion.com/order/item.aspx?idprod=372&idcat=3) that is the bomb for smooth silky intoxicating skin. I also use almond oil, that I found in the ethnic section of walgreens, as a hair detangler after shampooing. Just a drop or two and rub it in your hair, tangles slide right out and you have shiny hair! ---
**Author:** ![Surly\_Chick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/14 "2008-04-24T18:29:20Z")
I have stealth ash too - especially on my shins. That’s why it’s important to exfoliate on a regular basis. (Shower gloves along with H2O shower gel with vitamin E are the best!) Cocoa butter is too heavy of a mosturizer for me though. I always feel slimy so have to use something lighter. Just thought I’d share… ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/15 "2008-04-24T18:47:36Z")
If I had to use lotion on a more regular basis to avoid looking unkempt to my peers then I’d probably go with cocoa butter too. You can get like two quarts of the Queen Helene stuff for like $2 and it smells, while like cocoa butter, not too bad either. The stuff that my girlfriend keeps around the house sells for more along the lines of $5000 for two quarts and makes you smell like figs. Nobody wants to smell like figs. ---
**Author:** ![freekalette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@freekalette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freekalette)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/16 "2008-04-24T19:45:44Z")
[QUOTE=Madd Maxx] My wife’s OB/GYN recommended cocoa butter for her stretch marks while he was pregnant and for her nipples while she was breast feeding. Seemed to work pretty good, and I use it on my ashy-ass elbows. Works better than hand lotion for me. [/QUOTE] Somehow I missed the (rather important) word “elbows” the first time I read this. I liked it better that way, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![scout1222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@scout1222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scout1222)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/17 "2008-04-24T20:57:50Z")
That really chaps my ass. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/18 "2008-04-24T21:55:12Z")
[QUOTE=NinetyWt] Right, since there isn’t really any difference in black/white skin. [/QUOTE] Isn’t there? I’ve always had the impression that blacks’ skin is significantly oilier. (But not oily enough, apparently, to prevent the “ash” effect by itself.) ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/19 "2008-04-24T22:22:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Isn’t there? I’ve always had the impression that blacks’ skin is significantly oilier. (But not oily enough, apparently, to prevent the “ash” effect by itself.) [/QUOTE] . Impressions can be misleading. While there is some disagreement: > [@](#): > > Most dermatologists believe that black skin is no oilier than white skin, but that oil is more visible against a dark background. Dr. Carmen Myrie Williams, an associate professor of dermatology and pathology at George Washington University, says, ‘‘The tendency to have oily or dry skin is pretty much genetic and equal among the races.’’ Dr. Linda J. Higginbotham, a staff physician in the department of dermatology at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, believes otherwise. She says oil glands in black skin like hers seem to be more active than those in white skin. and > [@](#): > > Skin-care people disagree on the subject. Miss Sims, the former model, says the risk is too great and doesn’t use exfoliating products at all. As to the oiliness of black skin, she says the problem ‘‘is related to the old Aunt Jemima myth. The most derogatory look for a black woman is a heavy, shiny face. It’s a negative thing, a class thing. That myth does a lot of damage to black skin. Black women believe that and use harsh chemicals on their skin to compensate.’’ Both quotes from here: [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5D71738F93BA25752C0A961948260](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5D71738F93BA25752C0A961948260) It is an old article, (1987) but it stands to reason, if black skin were significantly oilier than that of other ethnicities, we’d also have more facial acne than average, which I have seen no evidence of, and no need for heavy moisturizers, such as cocoa butter, for the body. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544/20 "2008-04-24T22:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Isn’t there? I’ve always had the impression that blacks’ skin is significantly oilier. (But not oily enough, apparently, to prevent the “ash” effect by itself.) [/QUOTE] Black people “tend to” have oily skin the way they “tend to” have wide flat noses - that is, sure, perhaps, as a group a larger percentage of what we’d colloquially identify as “Black people” have what would be termed oily skin than white people. But there are plenty of black people with dry skin, and plenty of white people (including yours truly) with oily skin. The number and production of oil glands is not markedly different between white and black skin. The only difference in the structure of our skins is the melanin granules. Surprisingly enough, ‘Black’ skins do not contain any \*more \*melanocytes (melanin producing cells) than white ones do. But there are differences in the melanosomes, or melanin granules in the differently colored skins. In black skins the melanosomes are larger, whereas in white skins they are less obvious. In Asian people, the melanosomes are relatively large in size, and are distributed within the skin cells as a mixture of single and complex forms. In African skin the melanosomes are even larger; they are heavily pigmented and scattered singly throughout the keratinocytes. In white Caucasian skin the melanosomes are smaller and have less melanin; they are distributed as clumps in keratinocytes. What we see as the actual skin color, depends on light that is reflected by four different colored components of the skin, which are found at different levels throughout the epidermis and the dermis. These reflections combine to give us our unique skin color. They are: melanin in the epidermis, red blood cells containing oxygen in the small blood vessels of the dermis, red blood cells without oxygen in the same blood vessels, and orange-yellow chemicals called carotenoids in the stratum corneum and the subcutaneous fat layer; these are principally responsible for the yellow tones of skin color, and are more abundant in men’s skin than in women’s. Why yes, I did do a presentation on Skin Structure and Function for a biology class once, how could you tell? 😛 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/black-people-and-cocoa-butter/446544.md?page=2)