# Blackberries and Thorns **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 26, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205 "2015-07-26T02:23:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/1 "2015-07-26T02:23:49Z")
From an evolutionary point of view you would think blackberries are so sweet to attract predators that would spread the seed far and wide. So why the thorns ? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/2 "2015-07-26T02:35:51Z")
Because they “want” creatures that will spread the seeds (which are not vital to the survival of that particular specimen) without stripping the leaves (which ARE). ---
**Author:** ![yearofglad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b782af/32.png) [@yearofglad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yearofglad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/3 "2015-07-26T02:38:24Z")
I found 2 different answers in a quick search online: 1. It helps keep larger, herbivorous predators away while allowing smaller creatures (like insects) access to the plant and its flowers; if an animal eats the plant before the fruit has time to grow, the plant’s seeds won’t be spread. 2. It allows the vines to “attach” to one another and to other plants to help keep it off the ground and making it easier to climb above other plants. Both seem viable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/4 "2015-07-26T02:42:49Z")
Because the animals that are attracted to the berries are different than the ones that want to eat the leaves. Blackberry seeds will mostly be dispersed by birds, which can avoid the thorns, and by bears, which have thick enough skin so they don’t care about them. The thorns are to keep deer and other herbivores from eating the leaves. “Predator” is not really the right word for these relationships. Predators kill their prey. Animals that eat fruit and spread the seeds intact are called dispersers. (Seed predators eat the seeds themselves and kill them.) Herbivores eat leaves from plants but don’t normally kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/5 "2015-07-26T04:17:17Z")
While we’re at it, there’s a similar dynamic going on with chili peppers. Most mammals (which have relatively small ranges) dislike the burn of capsaicin and so avoid the peppers, but birds (which travel long distances and so disperse the seeds far and wide) are completely insensitive to it. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/6 "2015-07-26T12:31:31Z")
Of course all of you will know that a blackberry is not a berry and it doesn’t have thorns. > [@](#): > > The usually black fruit is not a berry in the botanical sense of the word. Botanically it is termed an aggregate fruit, composed of small drupelets. > [Blackberry - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackberry) > [@](#): > > ‘Botanically, thorns are distinguised as modified stems (as in the honey locust and hawthorn) from spines, which are modified leaves, and from prickles, which are epidermal outgrowths of the bark (as in the rose and blackberry)’. > [Prickles and Thorns.](http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/ezine.php?publicationID=640) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/7 "2015-07-26T15:16:21Z")
And of course we also all know that thorns are plant things that prick you, and that berries are small juicy fruits with no or edible seeds, and that both of these meanings existed long before botanists came along and tried to claim that oranges are berries but that berries aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/8 "2015-07-26T15:17:23Z")
Prickles on a blackberry actually 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/9 "2015-07-27T21:15:06Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Of course all of you will know that a blackberry is not a berry and it doesn’t have thorns. Anne B.: He who dares not grasp the thorn should never crave the rose. Bob +: Grasp the prickle. Anne B.: The pickle? Bob +: Prickle. Roses have prickles, not thorns. Anne B.: Oh, good, because the roses I know are not impressed by men who continually grasp the pickle. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/10 "2015-07-27T21:36:22Z")
That was funny. Those Bronte sisters were something, eh? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/11 "2015-07-27T21:38:58Z")
And nobody mentioned tomatoberries. ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackberries-and-thorns/726205/12 "2015-07-28T23:01:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Because the animals that are attracted to the berries are different than the ones that want to eat the leaves. > > Blackberry seeds will mostly be dispersed by birds, which can avoid the thorns, and by bears, which have thick enough skin so they don’t care about them. The thorns are to keep deer and other herbivores from eating the leaves. > > “Predator” is not really the right word for these relationships. Predators kill their prey. Animals that eat fruit and spread the seeds intact are called dispersers. (Seed predators eat the seeds themselves and kill them.) Herbivores eat leaves from plants but don’t normally kill them. Foxes have a reputation for eating blackberries too. My mate’s German Shepherd was very fond of them too. Her thorn avoiding technique was to put her face close to the branch and slurp - of course this only works when the blackberries are really ripe and ready to go.