# Blackjack rules: Dealer's hand involving an ace **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2008, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734 "2008-06-04T08:30:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/1 "2008-06-04T08:30:43Z")
In blackjack, the dealer is required to hit if he has 16 or less with his cards and has to stand with 17 or more. Are these rules modified if one of the dealer’s cards is an ace? I know that the rules regarding soft 17 (i.e., a 17 with an ace currently counting as 1, not 11) vary; in some places, the dealer has to hit on soft 17, in others he stands. But what about other hands? Suppose the dealer has an ace and a seven; all the remaining players have 19 or more. In this case, it would clearly be advantageous for the bank to hit, instead of standing with 18. Would it be allowed to do so? Are there standardized rules for this, or do they vary as they do about soft 17? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/2 "2008-06-04T08:32:22Z")
No, the house always takes the same action regardless of the players’ hands. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/3 "2008-06-04T08:52:10Z")
In most casinos, the dealer is required to stand on soft 17 (and any hand with an ace totalling 17 or more). This will be stated somewhere in the table rules. In general, this rule actually decreases the advantage to the house, according to [this article](http://krigman.casinocitytimes.com/articles/12410.html). There is no national or international rule, it depends on the house rules at that casino. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/4 "2008-06-04T09:11:41Z")
Also, the house rules are printed on the layout (the felt atop the table) of every blackjack table I’ve seen, said a former service technician for Shuffle Master (card shuffler manufacturer). (And yes, the shufflers truly do randomize the cards.) ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/5 "2008-06-04T09:22:48Z")
I can confirm that the above posts are correct, and a dealer will not hit a soft 18 if all the players are showing 19 or higher. One of the ways to decrease the house odds against you is to gamble somewhere that the house rules are to stand on soft 17. It’s getting harder to find places that are willing to give up the advantage that hitting a soft 17 gives them, though. A dealer is not allowed to make decisions based on what the other players are showing. He has a specific set of house rules to follow based only on the cards in his hand. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/6 "2008-06-04T11:23:16Z")
There is a difference when the dealer shows an ace, of course, involving the house offering a side bet of insurance against the dealer blackjack. But that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/7 "2008-06-04T11:26:13Z")
OK, that answers my quick question. Thanks everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/8 "2008-06-04T13:21:50Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] One of the ways to decrease the house odds against you is to gamble somewhere that the house rules are to stand on soft 17. It’s getting harder to find places that are willing to give up the advantage that hitting a soft 17 gives them, though. [/QUOTE] [grumble] It pisses me off the way the table is marked, “Dealer must hit soft 17” instead of “Dealer gets to hit soft 17”. [/grumble] ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/9 "2008-06-04T14:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=KRM] [grumble] It pisses me off the way the table is marked, “Dealer must hit soft 17” instead of “Dealer gets to hit soft 17”. [/grumble] [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t that be to your advantage though? If you stand on 16 against a dealer 6 (the basic strategy play) and the dealer turns up a soft 17, if the dealer “must” hit then you still have a chance to win the hand. If the dealer has the option not to hit, you lose. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/10 "2008-06-04T14:15:58Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Wouldn’t that be to your advantage though? If you stand on 16 against a dealer 6 (the basic strategy play) and the dealer turns up a soft 17, if the dealer “must” hit then you still have a chance to win the hand. If the dealer has the option not to hit, you lose. [/QUOTE] I think more often than not, dealer wins the hand. I forgot the percentages, but dealer staying on soft 17 is a good advantage for the player. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/11 "2008-06-04T14:16:59Z")
I’m guessing the amount of times drawing at a soft 17 results in a better hand more than offsets that. I’m under the impression that it’s +ev for the house to hit on soft 17. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/12 "2008-06-04T14:53:01Z")
[Here’s](http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/house-edge-calculator.html) a handy calculator that shows how rule variations effect your odds. Dealer hits a soft 17 increases the house advantage about .2% ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/13 "2008-06-04T15:01:28Z")
No, I’m saying that if the rule is that the dealer is _never_ forced to stand on soft 17, then it’s to the player’s advantage to make hitting soft 17 mandatory (“dealer _must_ hit”) rather than optional (“dealer _may_ hit”). If the dealer has the option of either hitting or standing on soft 17, then the player standing on 16 is going to lose to soft 17 every time. If the dealer is forced to hit soft 17, then at least some of the time the dealer is going to lose. I don’t know how much of an advantage it is, but the wording of “must” rather than “may” is an advantage to the player. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/14 "2008-06-04T15:06:42Z")
[QUOTE=Schnitte] the rules regarding soft 17 (i.e., a 17 with an ace currently counting as 1, not 11) vary [/QUOTE] Doesn’t “soft 17” mean the ace is counting as 11, not 1, e.g. A 6 ? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/15 "2008-06-04T15:12:48Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] No, I’m saying that if the rule is that the dealer is _never_ forced to stand on soft 17, then it’s to the player’s advantage to make hitting soft 17 mandatory (“dealer _must_ hit”) rather than optional (“dealer _may_ hit”). If the dealer has the option of either hitting or standing on soft 17, then the player standing on 16 is going to lose to soft 17 every time. If the dealer is forced to hit soft 17, then at least some of the time the dealer is going to lose. I don’t know how much of an advantage it is, but the wording of “must” rather than “may” is an advantage to the player. [/QUOTE] Sure, a dealer would help someone sitting on a 16 if he hits his soft 17. The guy sitting on a 17-21? Not so much. Overall, it is to the house’s advantage to hit a soft 17. That’s why so many of them are switching to it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/16 "2008-06-04T15:46:06Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] No, I’m saying that if the rule is that the dealer is _never_ forced to stand on soft 17, then it’s to the player’s advantage to make hitting soft 17 mandatory (“dealer _must_ hit”) rather than optional (“dealer _may_ hit”). [/QUOTE] Gotcha. I misunderstood his complaint. [QUOTE=Colophon] Doesn’t “soft 17” mean the ace is counting as 11, not 1, e.g. A 6 ? [/QUOTE] Yes. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/17 "2008-06-04T16:11:13Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Wouldn’t that be to your advantage though? If you stand on 16 against a dealer 6 (the basic strategy play) and the dealer turns up a soft 17, if the dealer “must” hit then you still have a chance to win the hand. If the dealer has the option not to hit, you lose. [/QUOTE] No casino blackjack game will ever give the dealer a choice of what to do. Ever. There will always be a set of rules in the form “If this, do X. Otheriwse, do Y.” Allowing choices on the part of the dealer breaks the game in more ways than one. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/18 "2008-06-04T16:45:39Z")
[QUOTE=JSexton] No casino blackjack game will ever give the dealer a choice of what to do. Ever. There will always be a set of rules in the form “If this, do X. Otheriwse, do Y.” Allowing choices on the part of the dealer breaks the game in more ways than one. [/QUOTE] Indeed. If I’m standing on 12 and the guy next to me is on 20, we’re going to have a tough time coming to a consensus on whether or not the dealer should hit his soft 17. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/19 "2008-06-04T16:48:46Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] Doesn’t “soft 17” mean the ace is counting as 11, not 1, e.g. A 6 ? [/QUOTE] You’re right, I wrote it the wrong way around, but it seems everyone got what I meant. If the dealer has 17 with a hand involving an ace that already counts as one, then he will obviously stand. [QUOTE=JSecton] No casino blackjack game will ever give the dealer a choice of what to do. Ever. There will always be a set of rules in the form “If this, do X. Otheriwse, do Y.” [/QUOTE] But wouldn’t it be feasible for the casino to phrase a rule to the effect of “In the case of a soft 17, hit if the total of stakes of players with 17 or more exceeds the total of players with 16 or less,” or something similar? I think this would work out to what **Otto** had in mind. ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734/20 "2008-06-04T19:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=KRM] Indeed. If I’m standing on 12 and the guy next to me is on 20, we’re going to have a tough time coming to a consensus on whether or not the dealer should hit his soft 17. [/QUOTE] Obviously, it is based on who is tipping the dealer more. One of the reasons for dealers to be robots is that it severely reduces the chances of dealers and players colluding. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blackjack-rules-dealers-hand-involving-an-ace/451734.md?page=2)