# Blacks and the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 13, 2010, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057 "2010-06-13T22:53:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/41 "2010-06-14T05:58:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How many rapppers have been involved in gangland shootouts, and what does that have to do with the music itself? google rapper and shooting and count them yourself. What it has to do with the music is your comparison to other genres and social standards. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/42 "2010-06-14T07:06:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > All right. Remember, though, what this hijack was originally about was the claim that country music is no more “morally responsible” than rap. > > I quite agree that most of country isn’t as **focused** on murder and misogyny as a lot of rap is, but I’m not convinced that it’s because the country genre actually rejects murder and misogyny as morally irresponsible, rather than because the country genre simply finds other topics more interesting to sing about. Like pickup trucks, and being lonely, and drinking, and loving the American flag, and so forth. As I mentioned before I’m not a fan of country, but this bizarre position you’ve staked out that country hasn’t “proven” itself sufficiently in positively rejecting murder and violence against women is absurd. Other than \*not \*make killing people and beating women popular song topics (which overall they aren’t in country) what the hell would you have them do? Rap and country have no equivalency on this issue by any metric you can name, and your position that you’re “not convinced” there’s a meaningful difference in the overall ethical postures of these genres regarding murder and violence against women is logically absurd. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/43 "2010-06-14T08:14:00Z")
**Dio** , back away from that crack pipe. If you listen to Folsom Prison Blues it’s about remorse for what he did, which is why “…I hang my head and cry”. And I’m sure there are a few other songs where someone committed a crime. But a large portion of rap music _glorifies_ all manner of immoral behavior, from keeping yo hos and bitches in line to dealing drugs to killing cops. It’s not _just_ the content, it’s the glorification of it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/44 "2010-06-14T08:38:02Z")
It can’t be hard to compare the lyrics of, say, the last 40 rap tunes to hit the top ten and the last 40 in any other genre. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/45 "2010-06-14T09:12:09Z")
> [@Nobody](#): > > I thought even blacks think that the high rate of absentee fathers was a bad thing. We all do. The question is whether to help the victims or punish them. I’m not sure of the chronology of Generations W, X, Y, Z, but that OP question was posed at all suggests a startling information gap. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/46 "2010-06-14T09:15:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > We all do. The question is whether to help the victims or punish them. > > I’m not sure of the chronology of Generations W, X, Y, Z, but that OP question was posed at all suggests a startling information gap. Well, that’s why I posted the OP, to get educated :). Oh, and Generation Y comes after Generation X who come after the Baby Boomers who come after…I don’t know what the WWII generation is called. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/47 "2010-06-14T10:03:24Z")
A surprising number of Blacks feel like they don’t owe the Democrats their vote. In a 1984 **Penthouse** interview, Mick Jagger said that every successful Black recording artist he knew of voted for Reagan. As filthy as the Southern Strategy was, it’s not the final word on Blacks and the Republican party. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/48 "2010-06-14T12:30:25Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > A surprising number of Blacks feel like they don’t owe the Democrats their vote. In a 1984 **Penthouse** interview, Mick Jagger said that every successful Black recording artist he knew of voted for Reagan. As filthy as the Southern Strategy was, it’s not the final word on Blacks and the Republican party. I don’t think successful recording artists are a statistically valid sample of black Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/49 "2010-06-14T13:16:51Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s not automatic for everybody, but that is indeed the intention when conservative politicians and right wing media pundits do it. Ronald Reagan’s construct of the mythical “welfare queen” was not exactly subtle. “Mythical?” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/50 "2010-06-14T13:44:43Z")
Yes, mythical. No such creature ever existed. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/51 "2010-06-14T14:03:30Z")
For the last forty or fifty years the Republican party has had many elections in which it’s majority was very narrow. While most party members are not racists, there is a very hard number of actively racist political activists who will, with only minor encouragement turn out at the polls with reliability, and vote against any candidate who publicly supports the issues which address entrenched racism. When you know your party is gonna lose that faction if you support school integration, head start, WIC, and other such “liberal” ideas that seek to redress existing inequities mostly surrounded by race, you tend to soft pedal your strongly anti-racist feelings in public. You certainly do not speak out in an election year. Likewise you don’t encourage your party to take a hard line on racism in government. So, people who experience racism as an active detrimental aspect of government actions listen to you, and decide if you are not part of the answer, you are the problem. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/52 "2010-06-14T14:04:53Z")
I’ll just pretend Dio included a “virtually” or “practically” and save a lot of time and effort. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/53 "2010-06-14T14:13:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t think successful recording artists are a statistically valid sample of black Americans. No, but they’re a pretty revealing sample of _financially successful_ Black Americans. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/54 "2010-06-14T14:26:41Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > No, but they’re a pretty revealing sample of _financially successful_ Black Americans. At some point, wealth overcomes race as the motivating factor in voting. I’m not surprised that the wealthy musicians that Jagger hobnobs with would have voted for a platform of tax cuts for the wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/55 "2010-06-14T15:18:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes, mythical. No such creature ever existed. Actually, yes she did - Reagan was referring to an actual person. No cite because it won’t make any difference. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/56 "2010-06-14T15:21:49Z")
From [The Washington Monthly](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.mendacity-index.html) > [@](#): > > Over a period of about five years, Reagan told the story of the “Chicago welfare queen” who had 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards, and collected benefits for “four nonexisting deceased husbands,” bilking the government out of “over $150,000.” The real welfare recipient to whom Reagan referred was actually convicted for using two different aliases to collect $8,000. Reagan continued to use his version of the story even after the press pointed out the actual facts of the case to him. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_McAwful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e99b99/32.png) [@Larry\_McAwful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_McAwful)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/57 "2010-06-14T15:37:59Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > From [The Washington Monthly](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.mendacity-index.html) A grain of truth with elaborate lies built around it, and reënforced over and over again… that’s certainly what I’d call a myth. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/58 "2010-06-14T15:51:08Z")
[Moderating] > [@magellan01](#): > > **Dio** , back away from that crack pipe. **magellan01** , you’ve been told about this before. Personal comments like this do not belong in this forum. [/Moderating] > [@](#): > > If you listen to Folsom Prison Blues it’s about remorse for what he did, which is why “…I hang my head and cry”. He never expresses any remorse. He admits he deserves to be locked up, but what he’s expressing is sorrow that he’s stuck in jail. The full lyric is “I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die/And when I hear that whistle blowin’, I hang my head and cry.” He’s talking about hearing the whistle of the train that passes by the prison and wishing he was on the train, bound for someplace else. I’m not enough of a rap or country fan to do a real comparison, but I notice that most of the people who compare the two genres are not rap fans either, and get most of their knowledge about rap from press coverage of the most controversial artists and albums of the day. 😉 But I’m a blues fan and I can tell you that Ledbelly did time for murder, and that the blues has always been full of songs like 32-20 Blues. ‘Gun blues’ is an old time subgenre. And I know that when Johnny Cash died, at least a few rappers paid tribute to him. Cash said “I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die” was just the worst thing he could think of, and a few rappers thought it was kind of an early gangsta sentiment. [Here’s what Cash had to say about it:](http://www.mtv.com/bands/c/cash_johnny/news_vma_feature/index2.jhtml%22%5B/) > [@](#): > > Johnny Cash has drawn on a deep well of murder and mortality in American music, and everybody pretty much agrees the man’s a master, a modern icon. Today’s rappers, however — who deal with the same subjects in a, shall we say, more immediate way — get nothing but flack. Cash has gotten some flack, too, over the years, but he’s paid it no mind. And he has some advice for under-fire rappers. > > “Ignore it,” Cash says. “Do what you do. You can’t let people delegate to you what you should do when it’s coming from way in here [taps heart]. I wouldn’t let anybody influence me into thinking I was doing the wrong thing by singing about death, hell and drugs. 'Cause I’ve always done that. And I always will.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/59 "2010-06-14T16:18:02Z")
The GOP has also had trouble escaping the consequences of the Southern Strategy because of its recent embrace and encouragement of nativism in regard to illegal immigration - a problem which is no worse or better now than in most of our history. Being directed as it is against primarily Mexicans, their nativism has a racist tinge to it, fairly or not, that does serve as a reminder to other non-whites about how the party truly views them. And I do love how people who claim to support family values so strongly can devote so much adoration to music about divorce and cheating and prison. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057/60 "2010-06-14T16:49:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes, mythical. No such creature ever existed. I have an older friend who works as a school nurse in a poor district. One of the questions often asked by young girls is how to get family aid money. This is not something that happened in the past tense, it continues to this day. You could not be more wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-and-the-gop/543057.md?page=4)