# "Blacks are poor tippers"... racism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739 "2006-10-08T20:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/81 "2013-05-29T17:29:50Z")
Bumped. Some people still think blacks are, as a rule, poor tippers: [http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/us/florida-papa-johns-racist-rant/index.html?hpt=hp\_t2](http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/us/florida-papa-johns-racist-rant/index.html?hpt=hp_t2) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/82 "2013-05-29T17:59:35Z")
I have no problem with the seven year old zombie thread being bumped for the purpose of discussing tipping. I will note that the bump does not refer to any of the other “superiority” and “intelligence” sludge that the thread picked up over time, so I would appreciate any further comments being limited to the issue of tipping. If there is a real need to discuss the other issues, open a new thread. **[/Moderating]** ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/83 "2013-05-29T19:18:01Z")
For many years I owned a home interior store and would often make house calls. I would often say that the best behaved children were by far in the homes of single black mothers that I often sold to. The worst behaved children seemed to be in the homes of wealthy educated Chinese parents. In the middle class neighborhood I live in I could not distinguish and racial patterns of child behavior. Do these statements make me racist? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/84 "2013-05-29T19:18:25Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I wonder what the data would indicate as well. I know for myself, I tend to go overboard when I tip, simply because I’m aware of this unfortunate stereotype. So perhaps if you average the tips of black restaurant-goers, it will be lower than the average for white tippers, but with a bigger standard deviation. It may turn out that there wouldn’t be a statitistical difference between white tips and black tips, but that the ratio of poor-to-generous black tippers is greater than the same ratio for whites. Proportionately, you may find more high black tippers than high white tippers. Or maybe high black tippers are much more generous than poor black tippers are stingy. Hard data would allow us to see patterns like this. > > But to answer the question, the observation is not racist. I have my own anectodal observations (some of them negative) about white people, and I don’t consider myself to be racist (at least that I’m aware of). I think the problem comes when people let their anecdotal experiences affect their behavior, or when they forget that their experiences are not necessarily universal. If a server were to look at me and give me crappy service just because they assumed I wasn’t going to be a good tipper anyway, well, that would be wrong. And they would also fulfill their prophesy. > > Also, I would consider it bad form if your friend was going around, talking about how bad black people are at giving tips. Not that doing such a thing would be racist, but I think there’s something to be said for keeping certain judgements to yourself. Interesting. I work retail and I could say I observe certain behaviors are more common among certain races, but none I’d say were completely unique to any race or nationality. One example, I’ve noticed the customer technique of blowing some small inconvenience way out of proportion in order to get something for free, or an extra discount is more common among our African American customers. When any customer is actually doing that it’s irrelevant what their race is. It’s just an observation. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/85 "2013-05-29T22:38:53Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Interesting. > > I work retail and I could say I observe certain behaviors are more common among certain races, but none I’d say were completely unique to any race or nationality. > One example, I’ve noticed the customer technique of blowing some small inconvenience way out of proportion in order to get something for free, or an extra discount is more common among our African American customers. When any customer is actually doing that it’s irrelevant what their race is. It’s just an observation. It is an observation… one that should be valued for what it is, one person’s biased anecdotal experience not detailed in any rigorous way. More importantly, I think people ignore a couple things wrt to tipping (and I say this as a former waiter myself). IME (same caveats as above), many White people to don’t tip based primarily on service, they do it based on social custom and their own philosophy. That’s why many will still tip 15% for truly horrendous service, and/or the same or slightly more for exceptional service. For them, a tip is not only based on the individual interaction at hand; it’s about the custom and expectations. Black people (again IMO) are far more like give more weight to the actual service they have gotten. Also, IMO, servers of all races often knowingly or subconsciously give poorer service to Black people or other groups who stereotypically don’t tip well (eg. old people, foreigners, teenagers). In my day waiting tables, I would say the above accounted for the fact that many of my best and worst tips were from Black people. I would bet if you have a customer wearing the POV glasses to hide what they look like, you could tell within watching a few minutes of interaction between a waiter and a guest who among them is White and who is Black. Because of this, I think Blacks are often more punitive and more generous in terms of tips than Whites. They get worse service, and tend to take it more personally. Not only because, arguably, a tip should be personal to some extent, but also because there is a history of things “not working out for Black people” _with intent and/or by design_ in this country. While I doubt the kitchen overcooks steaks for Black people on purpose, when mistakes happen, the front of the house staff is less likely to address the concern with the zeal, obsequiousness, and efficiency that they usually would if it were someone they expected a good tip from, or have learned preferential disposition to. That’s another big thing today. A concern about x more easily gets written of as a guy trying to “get a discount” when it’s a Black guy and not a White woman even though both people likely just wanted validation of their concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/86 "2013-05-29T23:14:51Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I gotta disagree right back at ya. Hand picking one definition of out seven, given by three different dictionaries, and then taking one definition of what prejudiced means, to get what the overall definition of “racist” means, isn’t being intellectually hones. Uh, yeah that is racist. Similarly, it’s racist to be thrilled that your new co-worker is black because you think that means he’ll be a great asset to the company basketball team. Similarly, it would be homophobic to have similar feelings regarding a lesbian co-worker and the team softball team. For that matter it would also be homophobic to assume your new gay co-worker will love dishing about the real housewives of New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/87 "2013-05-29T23:24:10Z")
Oops. I didn’t realize this was a Zombie thread. Tom, apologies for reporting an insult to Miller several years old. ---
**Author:** ![emoticorpse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/22d042/32.png) [@emoticorpse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emoticorpse)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/88 "2013-05-29T23:59:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Gotta disagree with you there, **x-ray**. Look at the second definition you provided for racism: “Discrimination or prejudice based on race.” > > If the OP’s friend approaches a customer and thinks, “It’s a black guy. I’m going to get stiffed on the tip,” then he has just _pre-judged_ that person. This is prejudice. He has based his pre-judgement on the color of the person’s skin. That makes it racial prejudice. Therefore, his friend is, in some small measure, racist. I understand what the OP is talking about and honestly I think along the same lines as the friend I imagine, but from what I understand about his friend I would assume he is making his prejudgment based on NOT only a skin color, but for example would take into consideration whether or not this hypothetical black person arrived in a Lexus wearing a brand of clothes that are generally not cheap and carried himself respectfully, as opposed to carrying himself a certain way and other factors that went into consideration to come to his assumption. If things like this sway his opinion then would he still be racist?. ---
**Author:** ![emoticorpse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/22d042/32.png) [@emoticorpse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emoticorpse)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/89 "2013-05-30T00:01:15Z")
May as well post one more time, I’ll stop after reading about the zombie thread thing… sorry also. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/90 "2013-05-30T00:14:13Z")
[quote=“brickbacon, post:85, topic:375739”] It is an observation… one that should be valued for what it is, one person’s biased anecdotal experience not detailed in any rigorous way. [QUOTE/] In what way exactly is that anecdotal experience and observation biased? I’ve also observed that folks from the middle east and a few other locations tend to want to haggle a lot more. Is that biased also? I just thought it was because they come from a culture where haggling is the tradition and being a successful haggler is a point of personal pride. We also onserved that Canadians are lousy tippers as well. So much so that certain resturants would add the tip so that thier waitresses wouldn’t get stiffed. Is that biased as well? There are a lot of behaviours that are learned because of the particular culture of community you grew up in. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/91 "2013-05-30T04:03:16Z")
[quote=“cosmosdan, post:90, topic:375739”] > [@brickbacon](#): > > It is an observation… one that should be valued for what it is, one person’s biased anecdotal experience not detailed in any rigorous way. > [QUOTE/] > > In what way exactly is that anecdotal experience and observation biased? > I’ve also observed that folks from the middle east and a few other locations tend to want to haggle a lot more. Is that biased also? I just thought it was because they come from a culture where haggling is the tradition and being a successful haggler is a point of personal pride. We also onserved that Canadians are lousy tippers as well. So much so that certain resturants would add the tip so that thier waitresses wouldn’t get stiffed. Is that biased as well? > There are a lot of behaviours that are learned because of the particular culture of community you grew up in. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/92 "2013-05-30T04:36:45Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > In what way exactly is that anecdotal experience and observation biased? Conclusions based on casual observations and anecdotes are usual subject to many biases not limited to: misidentification, artibution errors, converse accident, cherry picking, confirmation bias, etc. Your experience is not particularly meaningful just because you worked in the food service industry at one time over a few years. Anecdotes, whether mine are yours, are not data. Even more rigorous surveys cannot account for things like disparate service experiences. That’s why when someone bitches about how some group of people always stiff you, I tend to take it with a grain of salt. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > I’ve also observed that folks from the middle east and a few other locations tend to want to haggle a lot more. Is that biased also? Yes, it is. Ask yourself a simple question, do you always know when someone is from the middle east? If you acknowledge you don’t, then why do you think the faulty assumptions you are making have no bearing on your conclusions. Let’s try another one. Say a White guy (perhaps he identifiies himself as Canadian :dubious:) gives you a shitty tip. Do you attribute it to his, race/ethnicity or his nationality, or just him as a person? Also, how and why do you make that assumption based on a relatively short interaction? Isn’t attributing to hos nationality giving “White people” a pass for shitty tipping? Alternatively, if get a shitty tip from a Black guy, do you ask yourself whether he’s Canadian? My point is that with just two simple questions, you can start to see how biased thinking can lead to erroneous conclusions. That’s not to say one’s biases always make them wrong in the end, it just means you introduce more assumptions that can lead one to the wrong outcome, or can magnify the disparities observed. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > We also onserved that Canadians are lousy tippers as well. So much so that certain resturants would add the tip so that thier waitresses wouldn’t get stiffed. Is that biased as well? In that case, it’s biased and prejudiced. Again, do you have as special Canadian detector? > [@cosmosdan](#): > > There are a lot of behaviours that are learned because of the particular culture of community you grew up in. True, yet as I am sure you know, there is no singular Black community anymore than there is a middle eastern one, or a Canadian one, or an elderly one. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/93 "2013-05-30T04:43:13Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/94 "2013-05-30T12:19:05Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Conclusions based on casual observations and anecdotes are usual subject to many biases not limited to: misidentification, artibution errors, converse accident, cherry picking, confirmation bias, etc. Your experience is not particularly meaningful just because you worked in the food service industry at one time over a few years. Anecdotes, whether mine are yours, are not data. Even more rigorous surveys cannot account for things like disparate service experiences. That’s why when someone bitches about how some group of people always stiff you, I tend to take it with a grain of salt. This is a non answer to a specific question. Nobody claimed a casual anecdotal observation was hard data, and , if you were paying attention you’d have noticed I did not saY I worked in the food industry. I asked, what , EXACTLY, was biased , or evidence of any bias in my statement? > [@](#): > > Yes, it is. Ask yourself a simple question, do you always know when someone is from the middle east? When you do business with people it often invoves getting their name, through conversation or on thier ID, and people have accents that with time and experience you get to recognize. Sometimes it even comes up in conversation. I’m aware that casual anecdotal evidence is not hard data or science, and made no claim remotely like that, but you made a claim of my post showing bias. > [@](#): > > If you acknowledge you don’t, then why do you think the faulty assumptions you are making have no bearing on your conclusions. Let’s try another one. Say a White guy (perhaps he identifiies himself as Canadian :dubious:) gives you a shitty tip. Do you attribute it to his, race/ethnicity or his nationality, or just him as a person? Also, how and why do you make that assumption based on a relatively short interaction? Think it through. Most people with any experience know that some people are good tippers and some are not, but when over time through multiple customers you notice the % of bad tippers or non tippers is very high among Canandians, and you’re in a location where you get a lot of Canandian customers, then logic and a grasp of math {not bias} kicks in. When a customer sits down and you recognize thier accent or they say they are visiting from Quebec, you know the chances are higher that they will be lousy tippers. > [@](#): > > Isn’t attributing to hos nationality giving “White people” a pass for shitty tipping? That’s ridiculous. Nobody is claiming every black person is a lousy tipper or that the tendency to be a poor tipper is associated with race. It’s just a casual obsevation born of experience. > [@](#): > > Alternatively, if get a shitty tip from a Black guy, do you ask yourself whether he’s Canadian? My point is that with just two simple questions, you can start to see how biased thinking can lead to erroneous conclusions. > > That’s not to say one’s biases always make them wrong in the end, it just means you introduce more assumptions that can lead one to the wrong outcome, or can magnify the disparities observed. Ideally, every customer should get the same level of good service, especially if you don’t recognize them as being repet customers who are chronically bad tippers. Human nature being what it is repeat problem customers reap the reward of thier personality flaws. Yes it’s possible a server might assume a table of black customers are gong to be bad tippers and not give them the same level of service but conversly, if the folks you socialize with are consistently bad tippers, don’t be surprised if servers begin to shun you. Some people even offer a tip up front to let the server know the higher level of attention you desire will be well rewarded. > [@](#): > > In that case, it’s biased and prejudiced. Again, do you have as special Canadian detector? Ridiculous , as I’ve already explained. > [@](#): > > True, yet as I am sure you know, there is no singular Black community anymore than there is a middle eastern one, or a Canadian one, or an elderly one. Compeltely irrelevant snce nobody made any such claim. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/95 "2013-05-30T13:46:00Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > This is a non answer to a specific question. Nobody claimed a casual anecdotal observation was hard data, and , if you were paying attention you’d have noticed I did not saY I worked in the food industry. I asked, what , EXACTLY, was biased , or evidence of any bias in my statement? My fault, I actually quoted the wrong person. However, what you are saying now is backing up my point. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > When you do business with people it often invoves getting their name, through conversation or on thier ID, and people have accents that with time and experience you get to recognize. Sometimes it even comes up in conversation. But not anywhere near 100% of the time, no? In fact, you would never even how often you don’t know. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > I’m aware that casual anecdotal evidence is not hard data or science, and made no claim remotely like that, but you made a claim of my post showing bias. Yes, upon rereading what you actually said, you were pretty conservative in your initial remarks, so let me retract what I said wrt to that post. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Think it through. Most people with any experience know that some people are good tippers and some are not, but when over time through multiple customers you notice the % of bad tippers or non tippers is very high among Canandians, and you’re in a location where you get a lot of Canandian customers, then logic and a grasp of math {not bias} kicks in. First, having worked in the food service industry, I can tell you that it is not a given one will start to notice a trend that x person a good tipper unless they are regulars and/or their tips are skewed greatly in one direction. Second, you have no idea who is Canadian or not. Sure, some may have some behavior that makes it safe to assume they are, but many don’t. Third, by chalking up their theoretical bad tipping to nationality, you are not attributing to other things race or socioeconomic status. By assuming causation instead of correlation, you can arrive at the wrong conclusion. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > When a customer sits down and you recognize thier accent or they say they are visiting from Quebec, you know the chances are higher that they will be lousy tippers. Bullshit. All you could rightfully say is that in your limited experience, the people you have waiting who are assumed or known to be Canadian have given me bad tips. Which is pretty weak sauce IMO. This concept is not particularly hard to grasp. It’s why nearly all sports use advanced metrics now instead of just scouting “observations”. It’s notoriously hard to correctly parse large amounts of data on the fly. Some surveys I have seen estimate blacks tip 5% less on average. Do you think if I showed you videos of 25 black baseball players batting, 150 White baseball players batting, and 30 or so other ethnicities batting, do you believe you could honestly tell me your assumptions about how well they each hit as a cohort (on average) would be even close to accurate? Within 5% that is? > [@cosmosdan](#): > > That’s ridiculous. Nobody is claiming every black person is a lousy tipper or that the tendency to be a poor tipper is associated with race. It’s just a casual obsevation born of experience. Of course people are saying being a poor tipper is associated with race. You just said the same wrt nationality. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Ideally, every customer should get the same level of good service, especially if you don’t recognize them as being repet customers who are chronically bad tippers. Human nature being what it is repeat problem customers reap the reward of thier personality flaws. Eh, clearly that happens, but most professionals will try to avoid doing that regardless of what sort of tip they might get. That said, you just said: “When a customer sits down and you recognize thier accent or they say they are visiting from Quebec, **you know the chances are higher that they will be lousy tippers.** ” You don’t KNOW that. Even putting aside the truth of that statement, if you take into account human nature per your understanding, why do you think groups that are assumed to tip less will get similar service? > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Ridiculous , as I’ve already explained. Rather as you hand waved away with a non answer about accents and being able to always correctly identify Canadians and middle easterners. > [@cosmosdan](#): > > Compeltely irrelevant snce nobody made any such claim. Certainly they have and will continue to make them. Your assumption that is cultural is understandable, but you have given no evidence that it’s “black culture” or “Canadian” instead of perhaps “Ethiopian-American culture” or “québécois culture” or “the culture of poverty”. Thus when a person working with a small set of incomplete data attributes causation to x, assumes a known Canadian is gonna give a bad tip, or thinks Black people tip poorly because of some cultural reason, they are making rash assumptions that usually lead to bad conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/96 "2013-05-30T14:27:36Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Conclusions based on casual observations and anecdotes are usual subject to many biases not limited to: misidentification, artibution errors, converse accident, cherry picking, confirmation bias, etc. Your experience is not particularly meaningful just because you worked in the food service industry at one time over a few years. Anecdotes, whether mine are yours, are not data. **Even more rigorous surveys cannot account for things like disparate service experiences.** I’m not sure I agree with the sentence I bolded for emphasis. But I’m willing to be educated. See item (c) in the following abstract: > [@Race Differences in Restaurant Tipping](#): > > Research on race differences in tipping suggests that (a) Blacks leave smaller average restaurant tips than do Whites, (b) Black-White differences in tipping persist after controlling for socio-economic status, (c) Blacks tip less than Whites even when provided comparable levels of service, (d) Blacks tip less than Whites even when the server is black, and (e) Blacks are much less likely than Whites to know that it is customary/expected to tip 15 to 20 percent of the bill size in U.S. restaurants That abstract suggests that it is possible to account for such things as comparable levels of service. A PDF of the study can be found [here.](http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/JFSBR_race_revision_article.pdf) > [@](#): > > Three of the studies discussed under Question 1 provide information that can be used to assess the possibility that race differences in tipping are caused by service discrimination. First, Lynn’s (2004b) national telephone survey asked respondents about whether they would tip and (if so) how much they would tip “if you received good service from a waiter or waitress” [italics added]. Blacks in that study reported stiffing more and tipping less than Whites even when the service is good. Second, Lynn and Thomas-Haysbert’s (2003) study using data from many different Houston, Texas, restaurants included customers’ ratings of the service. Blacks tipped less than Whites in that study despite perceiving the overall service level no differently than did Whites. Finally, Lynn, et. al.’s (2006) study conducted in Clinton, Mississippi also included customers’ ratings of service. Again, Blacks tipped less than Whites despite perceiving the overall service level no differently than did Whites. All three of these studies examined Black-White differences in tipping under conditions of comparable service for Blacks and Whites, and all three studies produced sizable race differences in tipping (as noted in Question 1). These findings do not mean that service discrimination never occurs or that service discrimination never contributes to ethnic differences in tipping. However, the findings do suggest that service discrimination is not the primary cause of Black-White differences in tipping. > > The findings also indicate that simply delivering comparable levels of service to Black and White customers will not result in comparable tips from the two groups. In light of the multiple studies referred to in that quote, I am leaning towards the position that your claim is not supported by the data. Am I making an error? Educate me. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/97 "2013-05-30T15:22:39Z")
The problem is that white people tend to judge others by their skin color ---
**Author:** ![simple\_homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@simple\_homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simple_homer)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/98 "2013-05-30T15:38:05Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > The problem is that white people tend to judge others by their skin color The problem is that _MOST_ people tend to judge others by their skin color. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/99 "2013-05-30T15:39:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That abstract suggests that it is possible to account for such things as comparable levels of service. Well, they account for, to some extent, on broad perceptions. Given that they article also quotes servers who acknowledge not taking minority tables, and giving worse service, I find those two things hard to square. Especially when the study author also notes the following: > [@](#): > > **Question 6: What Should Restaurant Managers Do about Race Differences in Tipping?** > > The high costs of servers’ negative attitudes and behavior toward Black customers require restaurant managers to take some corrective action. One possibility is to monitor servers’ treatment of Black customers and to let servers know that discriminatory behavior will result in termination of employment. > > This approach has been used effectively by Denny’s Restaurants (Adamson, 1998). Unfortunately, such monitoring is costly and cannot be done for every > server-customer interaction. Thus, it is at best an imperfect solution to the problem of service discrimination. Furthermore, monitoring does nothing to > address turnover (and may exacerbate it). I’m not sure you can rightfully allege that “servers’ negative attitudes and behavior towards Black customers has a high cost wrt to tipping”, and that Blacks tip less irrespective of how they perceive the quality of service. I also don’t think surveys that interview 25, 26, 95, and 128 Black people respectively are particular rigorous. That being said, given that you have cited some surveys that have attempted to measure this, I will soften my previous statement somewhat to acknowledge that such a thing can be (and has attempted to be) measured. Either way, I think it’s hard to say how serious the attempts to do so were without the raw data. ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739/100 "2013-05-31T14:40:53Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > As I stated in the 2004 thread (link posted above), I delivered pizzas for 3 years while a student at the University of Cincinnati in the late 1980’s. As you might expect, customers consisted of folks from many different backgrounds & ethnicities (white, black, Indian, Asian, etc.) Due to our close proximity to a neighborhood called _Avondale_, I would estimate 30% of our clientele were black. > > Most customers tipped between 0.50 and $1.00. Even “poor” college students usually tipped. During the three years I worked there, I _never once_ received a tip from a black customer. Not even a penny. I know this sounds like I’m lying, but I swear I am not. Back in the mid to late 90’s I worked in a restaurant that would probably have been a couple of steps above Chili’s and the like. Most customers were decent tippers including “poor” college students. I never noticed that blacks were any worse than any other group. The one group that everyone complained about were the more affluent, older white church goers who came in Sunday afternoon after church. They were the ones who frequently would leave no tip or just pocket change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-are-poor-tippers-racism/375739.md?page=6)