# Blacks commit more crimes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876 "2015-08-25T19:57:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/62 "2015-08-26T23:26:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll have to read more about it to see if it compares to the so-called “Twinkie defense” and the numerous misconceptions that have attached to it over the years. Considering the topic, should there be a “Ho-Ho defense”? ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/63 "2015-08-27T11:54:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Notably, though, the statistical analysis begins with: > > “It’s true that around 13 per cent of Americans are black, according to the latest estimates from the US Census Bureau.” > > The Bureau’s data is based on self-reporting, i.e. people who identify themselves as black or other than black, rather than any kind of scientific testing. Is there a possible scientific test that could confirm or disprove whether or not, say, Barack Obama, Halle Berry, Tiger Woods or their various children were black, assuming “black” was scientifically defined in some way? “Black” as a group identity is, by definition, a social construct, self defined. Navin Johnson can be black, if he wants. When one looks at the average genetic makeup of that self-defined group in the US, something like 80% of their genes for recent ancestry can be traced back to source pools in sub-saharan african (and for blacks with a history of enslavement, largely west african source pools). One does not “scientifically” define “black.” One does not scientifically categorize any given individual into a socially-constructed category. However, scientifically speaking, the pool of recent ancestral genes for the self-defined group of blacks in the United States is about 80% sub-saharan/20% european; for self-defined whites it’s 95%+ european. Hope that helps. There’s a common disconnect between “scientifically defining” any given individual’s categorization, and understanding that the average genetic makeup for an entire group–even self-defined ones–has very measurable genetic source pool differences. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/64 "2015-08-27T12:56:47Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > However, scientifically speaking, the pool of recent ancestral genes for the self-defined group of blacks in the United States is about 80% sub-saharan/20% european; for self-defined whites it’s 95%+ european. goodness knows how much criminality would result if the gap in genetic heritage between africans and european was wider than 75%. I mean, for goodness sake, just look at their history of imperial conquest, slavery and post-imperial control. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/65 "2015-08-28T16:25:24Z")
Can socioeconomic factors account for crime? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/66 "2015-08-28T17:28:05Z")
> [@ryu238](#): > > Can socioeconomic factors account for crime? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/67 "2015-08-28T17:45:34Z")
LOL. Ya thunk?! In particular upper middle class white males, who seem to specialise in fucking up the entire national economy, at great profit to themselves and their associates, and then leech on socialised solutions facilitated by Goldman Sachs. Golden days. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/68 "2015-08-28T18:02:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I have no problems believing that statistically, blacks commit more crimes than whites. I have a problem if someone were to attribute such disparities to race rather than economic and social well-being. Exactly. IMO the biggest problem with race relations in the US is that race and socio-economic background tend to be so interlinked, in that it’s easy for someone to say something that’s ultimately classist, and not racist, and have it interpreted as racist. Or for people to confuse class-based issues with race-based issues, and think that something they don’t like about blacks or hispanics is due to their ethnicity and not to their socio-economic position (and vice-versa, I suppose). I’m not at all convinced that most of the “racism” that’s talked about isn’t actually classism being confused with actual racism. But looking at the OP’s data above, it seems to me that the data itself bears out that at least in the context of murdering, blacks do it at a higher rate than whites. In both years, you have roughly 2650 murders done by both blacks and whites. However, that number of murders done by whites is done by members of a group that comprises about 80% of the population, while the black number is done by a group that comprises 12% of the population. So if we assume 318 million as the population, we have 2650 murders per 254 million people or 1 murder per 96,000 white people, and 2650 murders per 38.14 million, or 1 murder per 14400 people. That’s likely due to a combination of poverty and lack of opportunity combined with a culture that’s more tolerant of violent conflict resolution. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/69 "2015-08-28T18:33:54Z")
True. But you need to show the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/70 "2015-08-28T19:14:17Z")
Here is something interesting: [http://www.ronunz.org/2013/07/20/race-and-crime-in-america/](http://www.ronunz.org/2013/07/20/race-and-crime-in-america/) > [@](#): > > Consider the electoral behavior of American whites, and especially their inclination to support either Democratic or Republican candidates. Because of gerrymandering, most individual congressional districts are overwhelmingly aligned with one party or another, and general elections are a mere formality; this is often also true of statewide races for senator or governor. However, in presidential elections both parties almost always field viable national candidates with a reasonable chance of winning, so these provide the best means of gauging white political alignment. And for these campaigns, the racial lines are clearly established, with the modern Republicans being the “white party,” drawing over 90% of their support from that demographic group, while over 90% of blacks regularly vote the Democratic ticket, which also usually attracts the overwhelming majority of other non-white voters. > > As I pointed out in a 2011 article, there has been a striking statewide pattern to white voting behavior over the last couple of decades. Many conservative activists and media pundits have spent years attacking immigrants, illegal or otherwise, and have regularly denounced the cultural threat posed by the growing population of non-English-speakers or non-white foreigners. Nevertheless, the empirical fact is that presence or absence of large numbers of Hispanics or Asians in a given state seems to have virtually no impact upon white voting patterns. Meanwhile, there exists a strong relationship between the size of a state’s black population and the likelihood that local whites will favor the Republicans. The weighted-average correlations between the racial compositions of the fifty states and the degree to which their white voters favor Republican presidential candidates is summarized in the following chart. It lies interesting as I feel this combined with an overshadows on victims and other discriminatory policies created a downward spiral that the negro seemingly cannot escape. > **[Racial cartels and the Affirmative Action propaganda machine- part 2](http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-affirmative-action-propaganda.html)** > > Across the web,  a steady propaganda drumbeat proclaims a virtuous narrative. In one corner, innocent white people, paragons of "merit"... > **[The affirmative action propaganda machine- Part 1 nilevalleypeoples](http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-affirmatve-action-propaganda.html)** > > In numerous quarters a propaganda narrative as to vast hordes of "unqualified" blacks supposedly causing vast white suffering in employm... > **[Mugged by reality 1: White quotas, special preferences and government jobs](http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/2013/06/mugged-by-reality-1-white-quotas.html)** > > Conservative pundit Ann Coulter can be funny and interesting, and a spot-on scourge of liberals, but has a history of bogus or distorted... ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/71 "2015-08-28T19:20:31Z")
> [@ryu238](#): > > It lies interesting as I feel this combined with an overshadows on victims and other discriminatory policies created a downward spiral that **the negro** seemingly cannot escape. What the heck? ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/72 "2015-08-28T19:21:39Z")
Another thing to consider > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, the sort of harsh racial profiling widely practiced in some large cities was completely abhorrent to the socially liberal citizenry. One may easily imagine a scenario in which escalating street crime from the ghetto next door might have produced a collapse in high housing prices and sparked a massive flight of the wealthy. > > One reason this did not occur was the vast influx of impoverished immigrants from south of the border that swept into the less affluent communities of the region during those same years and rapidly transformed the local demographics. Between 1980 and 2010 the combined Hispanic population of Santa Clara and San Mateo counties nearly tripled. A city offering cheap housing such as East Palo Alto saw far greater relative increases, reversing its demographics during that period from 60% black and 14% Hispanic to 16% black and 65% Hispanic. Over the last twenty years, the homicide rate in that small city dropped by 85%, with similar huge declines in other crime categories as well, thereby transforming a miserable ghetto into a pleasant working-class community, now featuring new office complexes, luxury hotels, and large regional shopping centers. Multi-billionaire Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg and his wife recently purchased a large $9 million home just a few hundred feet from the East Palo Alto border, a decision that would have been unthinkable during the early 1990s. Technology executives are highly quantitative individuals, skilled in pattern recognition, and I find it difficult to believe that they have all remained completely oblivious to these local racial factors. Puts Trump’s paranoia into perspective huh? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/73 "2015-08-28T19:25:55Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > What the heck? I didn’t even make it that far. After the first 10 or 11 words it was clear that the post was nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/74 "2015-08-28T19:27:14Z")
Ok ok, negro was harsh. But I do have a point, and there are other explanations: [Lead: America’s Real Criminal Element – Mother Jones](http://m.motherjones.com/environment/2013/01/lead-crime-link-gasoline) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/75 "2015-08-28T19:52:05Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Exactly. IMO the biggest problem with race relations in the US is that race and socio-economic background tend to be so interlinked, in that it’s easy for someone to say something that’s ultimately classist, and not racist, and have it interpreted as racist. Or for people to confuse class-based issues with race-based issues, and think that something they don’t like about blacks or hispanics is due to their ethnicity and not to their socio-economic position (and vice-versa, I suppose). I’m not at all convinced that most of the “racism” that’s talked about isn’t actually classism being confused with actual racism. I think this is right for the most part, but the problem is that its easier to determine a persons race just by looking at them than it is their class, and so discrimination based on class becomes discrimination based on race. Say for example you are a security guard in a gated community wanting to remove “undesireables”, and you see a young man walking down the street dressed in shorts, sneakers and a t-shirt. It may be that the qualities that you really consider to be"undesireable" have all to do with socio-economic class. Unfortunately you can’t tell right away what his class is just by looking at him. However, you can tell his race. Given that a black person is more likely to be of a lower class than a white person, you may as a rule of thumb hassle the person if he’s black and let him go if he’s white. Even though the basis of your decision might be based on social economic factors, the reality of its implementation is entirely racial. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/76 "2015-08-28T20:24:31Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I think this is right for the most part, but the problem is that its easier to determine a persons race just by looking at them than it is their class, and so discrimination based on class becomes discrimination based on race. > > Say for example you are a security guard in a gated community wanting to remove “undesireables”, and you see a young man walking down the street dressed in shorts, sneakers and a t-shirt. It may be that the qualities that you really consider to be"undesireable" have all to do with socio-economic class. Unfortunately you can’t tell right away what his class is just by looking at him. However, you can tell his race. Given that a black person is more likely to be of a lower class than a white person, you may as a rule of thumb hassle the person if he’s black and let him go if he’s white. Even though the basis of your decision might be based on social economic factors, the reality of its implementation is entirely racial. I never said it wasn’t discriminatory, only that it’s not “racist” in the classical sense. Another example might be a lot of white people’s disdain for AAVE. It’s a perfectly linguistically valid variety/dialect of English, but to most white ears, it sounds horribly ignorant. The disdain for it generally isn’t _because_ black people speak it, but rather because by the rules of standard English, it sounds ignorant and wrong. But, since it’s mostly spoken by black people, any criticism or commentary is viewed as having a racial component, when in fact, it may not be that at all. And in a sense, I think we’re saying the same thing- the problem is that the correspondence between poverty and the color of one’s skin is very high in the US, and a lot of people don’t draw much of a distinction. Or if they do, others don’t know that they’re drawing that distinction. I mean, I _know_ that AAVE is just a natural outgrowth of English, but that doesn’t stop me from having a sort of visceral reaction to hearing it spoken, as being terrible, ignorant and wrong. Stuff like using the “wrong” verb tense, leaving out the “is” or “be” in sentences (“He crazy!”) all just sounds awful. That doesn’t make me racist, as it’s not anything about anyone’s skin color that I’m objecting to, but rather the fact that by the rules of the language that I’m used to and was taught, that particular dialect doesn’t sound right. People wouldn’t make that distinction though. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/77 "2015-08-29T01:54:54Z")
So I wanted to debunk this sad website: [http://www.donotlink.com/ghsb](http://www.donotlink.com/ghsb) It went like this (trigger warring) > [@](#): > > "’s a few photo montages (below) of White women who became involved with blacks and paid the ultimate price for their stupidity. I can’t entirely blame them, however, since Jew media constantly brainwashes our race to breed ourselves away — so hypocritical considering how this arrogant race does everything possible under the radar, or even quite openly over in Israel, to limit this kind of thing among themselves. > > Hate to get graphic about it, but these foolish White women were stabbed, slashed, shot, strangled, smothered, slugged, stomped, had their faces and heads bashed in by anything convenient, maybe even burned alive by the black animal — gone bonkers about something or other — enough to murder “dat white bitch.” When things go really bad, these violently crazy apes might run off and slaughter the woman’s White friends, relatives, or any new White boyfriends — should the fool finally come to her senses. > > Do I believe there’s a purposeful effort to push miscegenation (race mixing) by the Globalist Jew money elite and little Jewry all through the media? You’re GD right I do. It’s all been part of the insidious “PC” crap designed to mess with our heads and destroy the White race as much as possible. He didn’t have much in the way of statistics… So I said “In 90% of domestic violence cases, they turn out to be interracial. [http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/ocjs\_FinalOIBRSReport3-26-07.pdf](http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/ocjs_FinalOIBRSReport3-26-07.pdf)” Off course the point is how bad is violence in interracial couples…And why? Fortunately I found good explanations and confounding variables [Intimate Partner Violence and Alcohol Problems in Interethnic and Intra-ethnic Couples - PMC](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3315595/#!po=18.7500) > [@](#): > > …, we hypothesized that partners with dissimilar ethnicities would be more likely to report relationship conflicts like IPV than partners sharing the same ethnic background. Interethnic relationships are reported to face challenges related to more complex relationship histories (e.g., prior marriages and prior children), fewer shared values, and less support from family that could lower relationship stability (Hohmann-Marriott & Amato, 2008). Two ethnicities may have different beliefs about marriage and expectations for men and women; life cycle events (e.g., pregnancy, childbirth, and acquiring a home) can increase stress and conflict between partners by revealing their cultural differences (Rosenblatt, 2009). > > Interethnic couples are also influenced by their larger social context. They often have the added challenge of experiencing the negative reactions to their relationship from others (Foeman & Nance, 1999). Families of origin may oppose interethnic marriages, and couples may face racism and other forms of bigotry in their community (Rosenblatt, 2009). The social stigma associated with interethnic couples may be greatest for black-white relationships (Yancey, 2007), which were targeted by race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the U.S. until 1967. Comparatively, interethnic white and Hispanic marriages may encounter less social resistance, although few research studies have examined Hispanic intermarriage (Llerena-Quinn & Bacigalupe, 2009). > > Interethnic couples are also influenced by their larger social context. They often have the added challenge of experiencing the negative reactions to their relationship from others (Foeman & Nance, 1999). Families of origin may oppose interethnic marriages, and couples may face racism and other forms of bigotry in their community > > national data shows sharp decreases in rates of interethnic marriage in older compared to younger married adults (Passel et al., 2010). Additionally, younger age is associated with interethnic dating (Yancey, 2002). Since heavy drinking patterns like binge drinking and alcohol problems tend to be more prevalent in younger age groups (Chen, Dufour, & Yi, 2004; Harford, Grant, Yi, & Chen, 2005; Muthen & Muthen, 2000), we expected that these factors would be associated with risk for IPV in interethnic couples. In addition, the increased social isolation (Hibbler & Shinew, 2002) and psychological distress (Bratter & Eschbach, 2006) reported by some interethnic couples > > Younger age, alcohol problems, higher impulsivity, and childhood experiences with violence have been previously associated with IPV, including mutual partner violence and IPV severity in intra-ethnic couples based on the dataset analyzed here (Caetano et al., 2005; Cunradi, Caetano, Clark, & Schafer, 1999; Cunradi, Caetano, & Schafer, 2002a; Schafer, Caetano, & Cunradi, 2004). In this study, we expected that IPV among interethnic couples would be associated with similar risk factors as those ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/78 "2015-08-29T02:10:17Z")
You always have to place wide statistics into the complex realities. There are sub percentages. X statistic expressed as y black, z white. Well y is some percent of the population, z the other percent. What percent of y is poor, what percent of z? What percent of y is busted for x, what percent of z gets away with it for reasons unrelated to the reality of committing x? You often have to dig deeper when a statistic is thrown out. The statistic, as stated, may be mathematically correct. The real meaning of it is often an intertwined web of realities and statistics. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/79 "2015-08-29T02:32:15Z")
…then how do I know what is true? And how does it apply here? ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/80 "2015-08-29T03:06:43Z")
How to know what is true? Always try and delve deeper. Don’t blindly accept a statistic as telling the whole story. Often, it just takes a bit of thought to reveal that there are more complex aspects to something. You don’t have to delve into those complexities. But at least realize it and take the statistic or headline with some skepticism. It can be very rewarding to track down the odds and ends of some broad statement or statistic. Expands your knowledge. Makes you more of a critical thinker. I don’t explore everything. But I do take some time to consider what weight I want to give the presented “fact”. I have become somewhat of a hermit. The wealth of information and disinformation that is so instantly available to me now, is a hobby to decipher. But that’s how I am currently spending a lot of my time. ( often in my past as well ) You may have better things to do. ---
**Author:** ![ryu238](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@ryu238](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryu238)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876/81 "2015-08-29T06:12:40Z")
I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-commit-more-crimes/728876.md?page=5)