# Blacks have good nonracist reasons to prefer pols of their own race; whites don't **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171 "2008-05-21T23:14:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/121 "2008-05-27T19:51:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Let me put it another way, it’s not racist to vote for someone of your own group when a.) you’ve never had a chance to do so before and b.) you have already showed a willingness to vote outside that group in the past. There is a difference between saying, for instance, that “I’d like to see a woman become President,” and saying, “I’d never vote for a woman.” The belief that a candiadate should be _disqualified_ because of something like race is bigoted. A longing to see a candidate of a demographic who has never been represented before is not. None of the black voters supporting Obama are averse to voting for whites. [/quote] But your vote _for_ one candidate because of their race means that the opponents race was a factor _against_ that opponent, does it not? For example, voting _for_ Obama solely because he’s black means that Hillary’s skin color lost her that vote. > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Plus the history and power differential makes the comparison asinine anyway. I respectfully disagree. This is a mind trick that allows folks who hold racial biases to feel better about them, IMO. If it’s wrong in one example, it’s wrong in all. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/122 "2008-05-27T20:01:14Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] But your vote _for_ one candidate because of their race means that the opponents race was a factor _against_ that opponent, does it not? [/quote] No, it does not. > [@](#): > > I respectfully disagree. This is a mind trick that allows folks who hold racial biases to feel better about them, IMO. If it’s wrong in one example, it’s wrong in all. I don’t hold any racial biases, and the history and power differentials are hard, cold facts. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/123 "2008-05-27T20:10:17Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I don’t hold any racial biases, and the history and power differentials are hard, cold facts. [/QUOTE] The facts are not in dispute, but they are being used to justify the attitudes and beliefs that are judged wrong when held by other individuals. “Rationalising”, I think the term is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/124 "2008-05-27T20:43:15Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] The facts are not in dispute, but they are being used to justify the attitudes and beliefs that are judged wrong when held by other individuals. “Rationalising”, I think the term is. [/QUOTE] They are _not_ the same attitudes and beliefs. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. No one is voting for Obama because they think white people are inferior or unfit for office. Plenty are voting _against_ him because they think that way. Sorry, but white people don’t get to act like they have any of the same grievances as black people. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/125 "2008-05-27T21:26:37Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They are _not_ the same attitudes and beliefs. That’s what I’m trying to tell you. No one is voting for Obama because they think white people are inferior or unfit for office. Plenty are voting _against_ him because they think that way. [/quote] They are favoring one candidate over the other based on skin color. Simple as that. > [@](#): > > Sorry, but white people don’t get to act like they have any of the same grievances as black people. Wrong is wrong. Period. Just because there may be 7 white racists for every black racist doesnt mean that the black isn’t racist. They’re all wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/126 "2008-05-27T21:29:22Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] They are favoring one candidate over the other based on skin color. Simple as that. [/quote] It really is _not_ as simple as that. “Favoring” is not racist. Absolutely excluding a racial group from any consideration is racist. A lot of white voters are doing the latter. there is no evidence (in fact, all evidence is to the contrary), that black voters are doing that. > [@](#): > > Wrong is wrong. Period. Just because there may be 7 white racists for every black racist doesnt mean that the black isn’t racist. They’re all wrong. [/QUOTE] There has been no demonstration of any significant black racism – not that white people would have any right to complain about it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/127 "2008-05-27T21:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Sorry, but white people don’t get to act like they have any of the same grievances as black people. [/QUOTE] Righto. White people and black people should be treated and judged differently from one another. I don’t agree. Nor do you get to simply define racism as only running in one direction, and assert that the debate is over, by virtue of your definition. (Unless your name is Merriam or Webster, that is.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/128 "2008-05-27T21:43:25Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There has been no demonstration of any significant black racism – not that white people would have any right to complain about it anyway. [/QUOTE] You have got to be kidding…tell me you are kidding here??? Are you seriously suggesting that racism doesn’t happen in people who’s skin is black? Or that even if it does it’s ok because white folks have demonstrated racism?? Seriously…you are trying to define your own terms and then covering the bases with ‘well, even if they do, it’s ok…because White people did it first!’. If you vote based on the color of someones skin (whether you for for them or against them on that basis) you are voting based on perceived race…and that is racism. Whether you be white, black, brown or green. It really is as simple as that. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/129 "2008-05-27T22:29:21Z")
If a black person votes for Barack Obama because he’s black and a white person votes for John McCain because he’s white, they’re doing the same thing. Either both are racist or neither are. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/130 "2008-05-27T22:29:52Z")
Nope. Sorry. It’s only racism if you _refuse_ to vote for somebody because of their race. Why is that so hard to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/131 "2008-05-27T22:38:48Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Nope. Sorry. It’s only racism if you _refuse_ to vote for somebody because of their race. Why is that so hard to understand? [/QUOTE] Does this work in all fields or just elections? If Hypothetical University sets a admissions policy of preferring white students over minority students, and this results in a serve underrepresentation of minority students at the university, is the admissions policy racist? They are not refusing to admit minority students. They just prefer white students. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/132 "2008-05-27T22:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] If a black person votes for Barack Obama because he’s black and a white person votes for John McCain because he’s white, they’re doing the same thing. Either both are racist or neither are. [/QUOTE] If a person votes _aginst_ either candidate based on race, it’s racism. Black voters have not shown an unwillingness to vote for white candidates, so all accusations of racism when they finally get a chance to vote for a black candidate (and historical context is everything, whether anyone wants to admit or not) are ridiculous. Let West Virginia prove it’s willingness to vote for _any_ black candidate and we’ll talk. There is no symmetry here. Historical context, historical power differentials, and historical _voting patterns_ delegitimize all such lame attempts to equate the two phenomena. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/133 "2008-05-27T23:11:43Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Nope. Sorry. It’s only racism if you _refuse_ to vote for somebody because of their race. Why is that so hard to understand? [/QUOTE] Nope. Wrongo, bzzzt. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/134 "2008-05-27T23:48:20Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Nope. Sorry. It’s only racism if you _refuse_ to vote for somebody because of their race. Why is that so hard to understand? [/QUOTE] Because you just made up that definition, that’s why. Judging someone because of his race is racism, whether that judgment is favorable or disfavorable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/135 "2008-05-27T23:50:44Z")
Those voting for Obama because he’s black are not judging his opponent on her race. Those who vote _against_[ him because he’s black are doing just that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/136 "2008-05-27T23:57:41Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Those voting for Obama because he’s black are not judging his opponent on her race. [/QUOTE] Huh? Of course they are. They’re judging that she’s not black (Reminder: “Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger.” - Rev. Wright). Do you \*really \* think the status of the election would be the same if she \*were \* black? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/137 "2008-05-27T23:59:54Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Huh? Of course they are. They’re judging that she’s not black (Reminder: “Hillary ain’t never been called a nigger.” - Rev. Wright). Do you \*really \* think the status of the election would be the same if she \*were \* black? [/QUOTE] She’s in the race in the first place because she’s a former First Lady. If we had such thing as a black former First Lady, we wouldn’t be having this debate at all. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/138 "2008-05-28T00:03:23Z")
Can we put aside the question of “is this racist?” for one minute–because all we’re seeing in this debate is a tortuous academic exercise–and consider if there’s a fundamental ethical difference between 1. a minority voting for one of their own out of the desire to see a minority do something that has _never_ been done and 1. a majority voting for their own to exclude the minority and perpetuate their 100% winning streak. We can argue whether something is racist till the cows come home, but that’s not a real debate. Yes, if a black person let’s Obama race sway them in the poll booth, then yes that person is a “racist”. (Ooooh, look at that!) But should this “racism” be equated with the kind of racism that leads whites to outright hate Obama and warrants his Secret Service detail. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/139 "2008-05-28T00:06:51Z")
And, even if true, that is relevant to a race discussion how? And I’ll ask you the same question - if she were black, would it really not have made any difference? Come on now. Your comment furthermore only makes sense if you’re sure she’s merely Bill’s ventriloquist puppet, nothing more despite a long public history to the contrary, and that somehow the people of New York and of every state whose primaries she’s won have just been too blind to get it. Is that it, or is there more? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171/140 "2008-05-28T00:16:51Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] 1. a minority voting for one of their own out of the desire to see a minority do something that has _never_ been done and 1. a majority voting for their own to exclude the minority and perpetuate their 100% winning streak. [/quote] You refer only to those voters for whom race is an overriding consideration, not those (the large majority, I believe) who look a variety of issues? Then you’re begging the question - somebody who votes on the basis primarily of race is a racist either way. What, you think Clarence Thomas was lauded by “the black community” for making it to the Supreme Court the way Thurgood Marshall was? > [@](#): > > But should this “racism” be equated with the kind of racism that leads whites to outright hate Obama and warrants his Secret Service detail. All major candidates get Secret Service protection. And hatred is hatred. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-have-good-nonracist-reasons-to-prefer-pols-of-their-own-race-whites-dont/450171.md?page=8)