# Blacks In The British Aristocracy, c. 1714-1830 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 31, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426 "2022-12-31T20:19:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/1 "2022-12-31T20:19:43Z")
I’m watching a TV show that includes among its characters a Georgian-era noblewoman. The [actress who portrays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolly_Adefope) her is Black. I’m not asking from a place of complaint – bully for inclusive casting and all that – but is there any truth to the idea of a Black Briton being accepted among the nobility of the Georgian Era? \*She mentions she’s adopted, but a) she could have been adopted by a Black family for all I know; b) if she were adopted by a white family, she would still be Black, so the question of Georgian aristocracy accepting a Black woman remains; and c) was adoption (as we know it) even a thing in English society in that era? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/2 "2022-12-31T20:30:46Z")
I’ve never seen the show, but she may have been based on a real, specific person. > [@](#): > > …the real historical figure Elizabeth Dido Belle, the mixed-race daughter of enslaved woman Maria Belle and Captain Sir John Lindsay. Born in 1761, she was taken in by her great-uncle, Lord Chief Justice William Murray, first Earl of Mansfield, and raised amid the lavish setting of Kenwood House in Hampstead, London, alongside her cousin Elizabeth. It was a rare arrangement, most likely unique, and today she is considered to be Britain’s first black aristocrat. > **[Britain's first black aristocrats](https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20210429-race-royalty-and-the-black-aristocrats)** > > Whitewashed stories about the British upper classes are being retold. Fedora Abu explores the Bridgerton effect, and talks to Lawrence Scott, author of Dangerous Freedom. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/3 "2022-12-31T20:44:42Z")
@Moriarty that is absolutely fascinating, thanks for the interesting read! ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/4 "2022-12-31T20:50:50Z")
I read an article a while ago that suggested the character of Heathcliff in _Wuthering Heights_ was black(ish?), a “young orphan from Liverpool”, which explained his constant outsider status, and may have been based on someone Bronte had heard about. He seems to vacillate between being a servant and marrying into the household after he returns as a “welthy gentleman”. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/5 "2022-12-31T20:51:31Z")
There’s a [film about Belle](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2404181/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2). It’s not bad. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/6 "2022-12-31T22:44:28Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Heathcliff in _Wuthering Heights_ was black(ish?), a “young orphan from Liverpool”, which explained his constant outsider status, and may have been based on someone Bronte had heard about. He seems to vacillate between being a servant and marrying into the household after he returns as a “welthy gentleman”. The idea that Heathcliff might not have been white has been widely discussed, and dramatised in at least one film. But Heathcliff and all the other characters in Wuthering Heights were gentry, not aristocracy. In real life there is no doubt that there were black people at that level of society in the later part of the 19th century, such as the Scottish footballer Andrew Watson and the English composer Samuel Coleridge-Taylor. This doesn’t answer the OP’s question though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/7 "2022-12-31T23:15:22Z")
There might also be a distinction between “member of a noble family” and “titled nobility”. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were the case that an adopted person could be considered a member of a noble family, but not themself eligible for a title. And I suspect that there was no ban, per se, on non-white nobility, but that nonwhites were effectively excluded by virtue of not being descended from the previous generation of (white) nobility. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/8 "2022-12-31T23:58:22Z")
Here I was sure you’d been watching “Bridgerton” and wondering how it applied to real life. Seriously though… the thing with aristocracies is that they’re hereditary. Considering that all the aristocratic families were all “native”, more or less, the only way for a black person to come into that world would be to marry in, be adopted, or be born into it via someone who married or was adopted in- however many generations back. So exactly the situation with Elizabeth Dido Belle - Captain Sir John Lindsay was a minor aristocrat, and she was his daughter by a slave. However, she herself wasn’t “legitimate”, and her children, while well educated and surely raised as wealthy men, weren’t aristocrats themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/9 "2023-01-01T00:52:35Z")
Have you seen the episode of _Ghosts_ that tells her back story? It’s been so long since I watched it, I’ve forgotten the details but I thought her circumstances (a black English aristocrat) was explained. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2023, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/10 "2023-01-01T02:39:22Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > but is there any truth to the idea of a Black Briton being accepted among the nobility of the Georgian Era? You could ask this guy: > [@Was Europe (1500-1789) a black civilisation?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/was-europe-1500-1789-a-black-civilisation/522194): > > [[image] ](http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Charles-Stuart-II-the-black-boy.jpg) [Charles II Stuart, named THe Black Boy] My research after three years resulted in a theory named Blue blood is black blood (1500-1789) by Egmond Codfried. Blue blood is the highest European nobility, starting somewhere at the end of the medieval period. Blue blooded nobility typically have no diploma’s given by a king, but were always considered nobles by their peers. From the highest nobles came the European kings, who were always bloodrelatives. Po… ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/11 "2023-01-02T00:16:18Z")
It’s worth noting that there was a Black man adopted into the Russian nobility - [this guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abram_Petrovich_Gannibal) - born in what is now Cameroon; his descendants, like Pushkin were prominent, and some were noble. And since the various European noble houses intermarried with each other, there are [English nobles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mountbatten,_4th_Marquess_of_Milford_Haven) descended from him as well ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/12 "2023-01-02T17:51:11Z")
Recall in _Merchant of Venice_ one of Portia’s suitors was Moorish and looking to marry a noble white Venetian, and Othello was black and married to a white woman - both with no notable disparagement by the English society of the time about this situation, except for the general xenophobia attached to non-British. Presumably Shakespeare picked on Venice as the diverse rich and worldly city of the times, given that it dominated the Mediterranean with trade, I recall a documentary about the changes in post-Africa many decades ago, that pointed out Idi Amin as one of the first African commonwealth leaders _not_ educated in British universities. Gandhi also was a British-educated lawyer. While all societies were unapologetically racist and xenophobic to a certain extent until recently (?) Britain and Europe in general did not rise to the level of the USA and its desire to keep their enslaved class distinct and separate. (which is a whole separate debate). ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/13 "2023-01-02T18:30:30Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > post-Africa Sorry, “post-colonial Africa” ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/14 "2023-01-03T13:11:46Z")
I should also point out Shakespeare’s _Titus Andronicus_ as a lesser known play with one of the earliest “oops, the baby came out black” jokes. The major transgression is the Queen’s infidelity, not that she was carrying on with a black man. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blacks-in-the-british-aristocracy-c-1714-1830/977426/15 "2023-01-03T19:10:17Z")
It’s not conclusive, but there seems to be evidence that Princess Charlotte, wife of George III, might have been part Black. She was a direct ancestor of the current king. Beatles fans might know the name of Pablo Fanque. He was a major showman of his time (which is why the Benefit for Mr. Kite mentions him) and was Black.