Blackwater should be shut down and prosecuted

Does the fact that details of the GJ proceedings were leaked absolve Blackwater of culpability? Does it excuse their actions in this, or any other incident?

Or are you just picking a nit to avoid the issue(s) of Blackwater’s actions?

I’m more interested in a debate about the worth and and propriety of unchecked mercenaries employeed by the US Gov’t.

Agreed. Those of my acquaintance with personal experience of Blackwater have unanimously praised them as being highly professional and in a couple of instances for saving their butts in a tricky situation.

This isn’t actually very accurate. Those companies didn’t hire Blackwater, AFAIK. Blackwater was hired by the US Gov’t to provide security to diplomatic personnel.

Let the companies hire their own mercenaries, if they feel they need to. And why would you assume that they would hire cab drivers, instead of ex-military mercs? That seems like a silly argument.

I would prefer the convoys and job sites be guarded by the Iraqi Army and the Iraqi Police Force we have spent so much time, effort, and money on training.

ETA: Removed some offensive words.

Well, they needed to feed the dogs at Abu Ghraib.

I can understand the government not wanting private firms using silencers, bad press and all, but I don’t understand why they can’t have M4s and radios. I guess I always thought they would have regular issue combat kit. What kind of rifle are they supposed to be using? It seems kind of strange to hire them to provide security and then tell them they have to use AR-15s or something. Surely they have at least mid-weight machine guns for checkpoint control, right?

Perhaps the army is afraid someone will trade a machine gun to a shop keep or something and it will get into the wrong hands. Are they supposed to be leasing their weapons from the army then?

Also, does anyone know how Blackwater is allowed to have select fire weapons in North Carolina? They could be pre-86 I guess, but I don’t think the M4 was around then. Or do private security firms like Blackwater count as law enforcement?

No. But it assumes the truth of the allegations, which are – so far as I can see – completely unproven.

In other words, you’ve seized upon a story that says, “The grand jury is investigating X,” and leapt instantly to the conclusion that X is true. (Just a wild speculation, but I bet if you read a story that said, "A federal grand jury is investigating ACORN for vote fraud, you’d be a bit more circumspect in your conclusions.)

Who do you think is gaurding military bases in Iraq? I’ll give you a hint: It’s not the US Military. It’s not a military at all. They’re random civilians from Uganda, mostly. Hell, I bet many of them were cab drivers, drunk homeless men, bakers, and who knows what else…

Too expensive. Not enough soldiers.

Cab drivers are less expensive. You see… the companies would not hire the mercs directly. The company would hire a merc corporation. That merc corporation will take all the money from the company and (like a good corporation does) will do whatever it can to maximize profit.
So the merc corporation will look like it’s some very awesome, high speed group. It’s founder will be a former SEAL or Green Beret or GSG9 or god knows what. So, that company contracting the merc corporation will expect to be getting a bunch of ex-military types.
BUT, what the corporation will do is walk the streets of Uganda and go to some job fairs in third world countries and find employees who will stand outside of bases and pull security for 900 fucking dollars a month! They are given a short briefing and minimal instructions on their weapons. Then they are handed an AK47 and told where to stand for the next 12 hours. They have no training, no knowledge, no experience. Yet, this is who the US Governement and the US Tax Payers are paying to protect it’s military personnel. Yes people, this is who gaurds your soldier when he sleeps on a US Base.
They’ll all be housed in some shotty ass billets where they’re packed in past max capacity. There they’ll leach off of legitamite soldier resources, their USO, their MWR, and countless other charitable goods and services ignorantly provided by generous Americans who think they’re supporting American servicemen.

Welcome to the World of Government Contracted Security. It’s bordorline human trafficking in many ways. And, despite what you hear, it’s not all about ex-military Americans getting rich working for Blackwater, et al.
It’s about companies like Triple Canopy, SOC SMG, and countless others providing the cheapest garbage they can round up in Africa, paying them NOTHING to gaurd American bases, treating their third world personnel like trash, refusing to provide for their morale or welfare (let the Army do it… they can leach off the soldiers) and all the while soaking up the profits.

If you think Blackwater does this without the knowledge of the President’s administration, you’re deluded.

Go smoke a joint and watch ‘Lord of War’. All will be revealed.

Assassinating people…duh.

You don’t hire Blackwater to plant daisies and shine puppy’s noses.

pravnik I think the benefit to hiring Blackwater is you can cut a lot of red tape that probably drives up costs. Also you can have things done more secretly than if you used American troops. Also, I think you’re right about it being cheaper because you do not have to pay for their general upkeep or pay them in between the contracts. Obviously somewhere in the cost benefit analysis it makes sense.

Still it was accurate. 160,000 troops. 180.000 trained Iraqis,160,000 mercinaries and contractors. If they would have just listened to the pros. 400,000 plus to do the job.

Do you have any cite for all of that?

Yeah, it’s a bunch of total crap. Some Mercenary outfits are like this, but Blackwater is a high end agency. It’s just like any other business. There are crap agencies and there are quality agencies.

Has anyone posting in this thread read the Scahill book? I have it but haven’t gotten to it yet.

If I remember correctly, he was (or is) there.

Which post are you responding to?

Well aren’t you just a contradiction. Make up your mind. Either some outfits are like this, or my post was total crap. It can’t be both!
If you’ll notice, I never said anything specifically about Blackwater. I specifically mentioned two other groups who are NOT BlackWater. I met nothing but ex-military professionals from Blackwater and I hold them all in high regards.

Which part is so far-fetched that it requires a cite other than personal knowledge/experience?

I apologize then. My mistake.

It’s just that I don’t recall seeing any Ugandans in news footage from Iraq.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8353942004369311258
I read it last year. Here is Scahill talking about them.

That’s an easy thing to cite. Give me a sec and I will upload some pictures. My connections sucks.