# Blade Runner Hypothetical (Tyrell Murder) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 8, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185 "2012-02-08T14:06:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/1 "2012-02-08T14:06:11Z")
Watched Blade Runner last night for the first time in many years. One thing I found myself wondering, is whether Roy would have murdered Tyrell if he hadn’t dismissed Roy’s guilt so readily. Is Roy’s statement that he has done “questionable things” as much a test of Tyrell’s morality as anything else? Tyrell’s response does not speak well of him. Either he is being honest, and revealing how he justifies his own actions, or simply mouthing a platitude to placate Roy. Of course, it’s then strongly implied that Roy goes on to murder the much less culpable Sebastian, so perhaps Roy would have killed Tyrell anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/2 "2012-02-08T14:17:22Z")
I think the only thing that would have kept Tyrell alive would have been some kind of fix for Roy’s impending life-cut off that was built into him. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/3 "2012-02-08T14:28:11Z")
He was murder-happy, and would remain so until he started dying. Tyrell was toast if he didn’t reverse the planned obsolescence, and maybe if he did, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/4 "2012-02-09T00:07:28Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > He was murder-happy And all-thumbs. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/5 "2012-02-09T00:15:13Z")
Sebastian was murdered as well, its in the movie but mentioned off hand. I doubt even a cure would have placated Roy, remember the questionable things were done at the behest of his masters and Tyrell represents that. How would you feel if your father had sold you as a child to pirates and they raised you to rape and murder, which you later as an adult realized was questionable. You’d likely feel guilty and confused and angry. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/6 "2012-02-09T03:10:30Z")
I don’t think Roy went there to kill anybody. He just wanted to live longer. But when Tyrell frustrated him, Roy responded in the manner that had always worked in the past. He didn’t have the emotional maturity to handle it differently. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/7 "2012-02-09T14:06:19Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I don’t think Roy went there to kill anybody. He just wanted to live longer. But when Tyrell frustrated him, Roy responded in the manner that had always worked in the past. He didn’t have the emotional maturity to handle it differently. I like that. After all, he saved Decker at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/8 "2012-02-09T14:24:42Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > He didn’t have the emotional maturity to handle it differently. Yes, that was something that struck me when re-watching it, the replicants are portrayed as lacking emotionally maturity. Witness Roy’s antics and howling like a wolf when hunting Deckard. Which makes perfect sense, given they are all under four years old. Roy saving him at the end shows they are capable of developing it though. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/9 "2012-02-10T17:12:34Z")
Maybe seeing Decker hanging by a hand and terrified set off the moral epiphany in Roy. Like a little boy killing a bird with a sling shot and then realizing that the little chicks in the nest are going to starve because of it. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/10 "2012-02-10T19:29:58Z")
Tyrell tried to blow sunshine up Roy’s butt - “we can’t change the length of your life, but we can celebrate how brightly your candle burned!” I’d want to jam my thumbs into his eyes for that, too. Deckard was desperate to live even when outmatched and hanging by his only two functioning fingers. That brought out Roy’s empathy. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/11 "2012-02-10T19:33:32Z")
Do you believe Roy’s death affected Deckard, too? I think so. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/12 "2012-02-10T19:36:20Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Do you believe Roy’s death affected Deckard, too? > > I think so. Of course - central to the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/13 "2012-02-10T20:05:48Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Tyrell tried to blow sunshine up Roy’s butt - “we can’t change the length of your life, but we can celebrate how brightly your candle burned!” I’d want to jam my thumbs into his eyes for that, too. > > Deckard was desperate to live even when outmatched and hanging by his only two functioning fingers. That brought out Roy’s empathy. Yeah, that was a pretty lame spin from Tyrell. What he should have done was to look thoughtful at Roy’s suggestions and say, “Yeah, you might be onto something.” It certainly wouldn’t have had worse results than “We tried that. You’re screwed.” Roy’s empathy I think was his moment of becoming human. Earlier, Leon said his line about living in fear and an itch you can never scratch. But that was all about anger and resentment. “Time to die” was used to mean “Fuck You.” When Roy echoes it at the end, it’s much more sympathetic and means “Goodbye.” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/14 "2012-02-10T20:08:13Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Of course - central to the movie. Yeah. Master of the Obvious, I am. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/15 "2012-02-10T21:56:50Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Yes, that was something that struck me when re-watching it, the replicants are portrayed as lacking emotionally maturity. Witness Roy’s antics and howling like a wolf when hunting Deckard. Which makes perfect sense, given they are all under four years old. Roy saving him at the end shows they are capable of developing it though. In fact, I believe that’s how the test works. Any human could handle the crap thrown at them about animals because they know how to block off their emotions. Replicants don’t. Sure, they don’t all snap like the guy at the beginning, but they all do lose a little bit of control over their emotions. And part of the tragedy of Roy is that he becomes “human” by showing restraint only at the very end of his life. Oh, and one obvious way to somewhat thwart the short lifespan was never explored: if they can copy human’s memories so exactly that the replicant thinks they are the same person, why can’t they do that with the biologically identical replicants? The replicant is near death, so copy his memories to another replicant that doesn’t have a mind yet. Sure, it’s somewhat closer to reproduction than immortality, but it’s a start. Of course, you’d have to find someone willing to do it, possibly a newly undetectable replicant sneaking into the factory to learn how to do it, and eventually stealing the tech to do it themselves. Then again, since it’s in the corporation’s best interest to still be able to tell the replicants apart, I don’t know why they don’t add some proprietary change to the biology that would be much easier to detect. I’m talking something like a chip in the middle of the brain that they can’t get out without killing themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/16 "2012-02-10T23:04:03Z")
Seems to me they coulda solved the problem with a _three_-year lifespan. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/17 "2012-02-10T23:05:13Z")
Thinking about it some more, the second thing Roy says to Tyrell is “I want more life, fucker.” It’s clear Roy holds Tyrell responsible for his limited lifespan, so it’s unlikely wouldn’t have walked away if Tyrell had answered differently. He could still be testing Tyrell with his line about questionable actions, and Tyrell’s response might have sealed his fate. Would be interesting to know the director’s and screenwriters thoughts, does anyone know if there if the commentary is interesting? > [@BigT](#): > > In fact, I believe that’s how the test works. Any human could handle the crap thrown at them about animals because they know how to block off their emotions. Replicants don’t. Sure, they don’t all snap like the guy at the beginning, but they all do lose a little bit of control over their emotions. Yes, Rachel’s implanted memories are the reason she is less susceptible to Voight-Kampff the test. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/18 "2012-02-11T23:03:08Z")
The movie made it clear (Bryant talking to Deckard) that the reason for the built in life span of Nexus 6 models is that after a few years, the replicants might develop their own emotions. This presumably would create problems in doing their jobs. It was not a defect of their creation, they were set up this way. (Earlier models may not have had memory implants and might have longer life spans.) Note that in light of this it would have been a very bad idea to try and copy a replicant’s memory into a newer model. The development of emotions would then continue and the problem would have risen in the new replicant. The conversation with Tyrell then had to do with fixing that built in time limit _after_ the replicant was created. I didn’t think Tyrell would have been interested in seriously extending an existing replicant’s lifespan. I.e., the scientific goobly-gook was just to throw off Roy. If this was the case, Roy might have realized he was being fed noise and that may have led to his retaliation. Roy did have positive emotions. He clearly cared for Pris a lot. It’s not clear if these were new emotions as he was maturing and getting near the end of his life span, or if a replicant like Roy would have been able to develop feelings earlier. Note that Rachel also was developing emotions, but her incept date is not revealed. I am a “Deckard is a replicant” person. So I think the reason Roy rescued Deckard is because Roy realized that he was one of them. (No ordinary human could have survived the punishment Roy dealt out and still been able to hang from a beam by a few fingers. That’s when Roy figured it out.) (This thread gets me onto one of my lesser beefs about the movie: The inconsistent pronunciation of “Tyrell”. Even Rachael can’t be consistent and she even has his niece’s implants.) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/19 "2012-02-12T00:11:41Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The movie made it clear (Bryant talking to Deckard) that the reason for the built in life span of Nexus 6 models is that after a few years, the replicants might develop their own emotions. This presumably would create problems in doing their jobs. It was not a defect of their creation, they were set up this way. (Earlier models may not have had memory implants and might have longer life spans.) > > Note that in light of this it would have been a very bad idea to try and copy a replicant’s memory into a newer model. The development of emotions would then continue and the problem would have risen in the new replicant. > > The conversation with Tyrell then had to do with fixing that built in time limit _after_ the replicant was created. > > I didn’t think Tyrell would have been interested in seriously extending an existing replicant’s lifespan. I.e., the scientific goobly-gook was just to throw off Roy. If this was the case, Roy might have realized he was being fed noise and that may have led to his retaliation. Tyrell knew he was dead the moment he saw Roy. No one knew Roy’s intellectual abilities better than Tyrell, and Roy had just checkmated him without even trying hard. He knew there was no point in trying to bullshit someone like Roy, who had evidently already done his homework into biomechanics or whatever they called it. If there were any plausible way to extend Roy’s life, I think Tyrell would have immediately spewed it. Just my humble opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185/20 "2012-02-12T01:18:28Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Tyrell knew he was dead the moment he saw Roy. Did he really? I’m not sure. It seems to me that Tyrell did not actually expect Roy to kill him, but, instead, thought he could talk Roy into accepting the fact of his limited lifespan. Surely Tyrell would have pushed some kind of silent alarm button if he really thought Roy was going to kill him? Of course, this is the same building into which Leon brought a gun, shot a Blade Runner, then left without any sort of security response whatsoever. One wonders why Tyrell lived as long as he did. :smack: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runner-hypothetical-tyrell-murder/612185.md?page=2)