# Blade Runner's court statement - what ya think? guilty or Not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 20, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845 "2013-02-20T01:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/41 "2013-02-21T05:53:18Z")
It’s surprising how much of the case’s details has come out during a bail hearing. If they grant bail then I hope he gets a monitoring bracelet. Not on the ankle either. 😃 I’m not sure where it could be worn. maybe around the waist or arm? It’s got to be someplace where it can’t be slid off and removed. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/42 "2013-02-21T10:29:05Z")
And the whole thing descends into farce. [Oscar Pistorius case: lead investigator is facing attempted murder charges](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-case-police-blunders) > [@](#): > > Hilton Botha, the detective leading the investigation, had crumbled under defence cross-examination on Wednesday after he wrongly claimed to have found boxes of “testosterone” in Pistorius’s bedroom and admitted that police had no evidence contradicting the athlete’s version of events. > > On Thursday further pressure was piled on South African police as they admitted Botha is himself charged with attempted murder. > > Police Brigadier Neville Malila told the Associated Press that the detective is scheduled to appear in court in May. Malila said Botha faced seven counts of attempted murder over what news reports called a drunken incident in which he and two other police officers were accused of firing shots from a state-owned vehicle while trying to stop a minivan. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/43 "2013-02-21T13:43:20Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > And the whole thing descends into farce. Well, in a real farce, the murder victim would stand up and take a bow at the end, so let’s hope so. As it stands, though, it looks like murder by Pistorius AND a separate case of attempted murder by someone else. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/44 "2013-02-21T13:59:39Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, in a real farce, the murder victim would stand up and take a bow at the end, so let’s hope so. As it stands, though, it looks like murder by Pistorius AND a separate case of attempted murder by someone else. It still looks to me like somewhere behind the scenes it’s been decided to get him off. I cannot believe the family were allowed to cremate the body. What happens when the defense start picking holes in the trajectory of entry results? I cannot believe how pathetic the prosecution case as put forward was. They couldn’t blow it better if they tried. I’m particularly suspicious about the sudden re-activation of the charges against Botha for an incident 4 years ago. But then again I guess where you have a suspect you can’t just beat a confession out of in the back room and have to rely on police work then things are bound to get sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/45 "2013-02-21T14:07:11Z")
Prosecution _case_? People, this is a _bail hearing_, not a trial. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/46 "2013-02-21T14:14:07Z")
I find at least two things about this whole sordid affair hard to comprehend. One, if they’re not married and are fighting, just break up. There’s no reason whatsoever to murder someone because you absolutely know you’re going to be the worse for it, either in jail for life or a sterling reputation ruined. So why would he ever even contemplate premeditated murder? Two, he claims to have yelled out to the intruder in the bathroom before he started shooting. If it was mistaken identity and she was just in there going to the bathroom, she’d certainly respond to his challenge. So I’m conflicted, these two things go against each other and both defy reason. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/47 "2013-02-21T14:32:52Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Prosecution _case_? People, this is a _bail hearing_, not a trial. As part of which process the prosecution have to argue their case. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/48 "2013-02-21T14:39:41Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I find at least two things about this whole sordid affair hard to comprehend. One, if they’re not married and are fighting, just break up. There’s no reason whatsoever to murder someone because you absolutely know you’re going to be the worse for it, either in jail for life or a sterling reputation ruined. So why would he ever even contemplate premeditated murder? Two, he claims to have yelled out to the intruder in the bathroom before he started shooting. If it was mistaken identity and she was just in there going to the bathroom, she’d certainly respond to his challenge. > > So I’m conflicted, these two things go against each other and both defy reason. He was probably yelling out and firing at the same time. From what we’ve learned this guy is a total gun-nut. Machine gun by the window, going down to the compound firing range when he can’t sleep, unregistered firearms on the premises. I doubt he was trying to murder the woman, he was either too scared to exercise due care or had too much of a hard-on with the chance to finally shoot something other than a target to bother checking. The prosecution definition of pre-meditation is a legal stretch and not what we commonly understand as pre-meditation. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/49 "2013-02-21T14:41:25Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > I find at least two things about this whole sordid affair hard to comprehend. One, if they’re not married and are fighting, just break up. There’s no reason whatsoever to murder someone because you absolutely know you’re going to be the worse for it, either in jail for life or a sterling reputation ruined. So why would he ever even contemplate premeditated murder? At least in the U.S., premeditated murder can be deliberated in a manner of seconds. It doesn’t mean that the murder was the result of extensive planning or days of contemplation. Just that the offender made a choice to kill another person. If they were fighting and she locked herself in the bathroom, he could have decided that he was going to show her who is boss once and for all by killing her. It only seems irrational if you’re looking at things rationally, but someone who is in emotion-fueled fight is not going to be thinking rationally. > [@](#): > > Two, he claims to have yelled out to the intruder in the bathroom before he started shooting. If it was mistaken identity and she was just in there going to the bathroom, she’d certainly respond to his challenge. Even if he didn’t yell out _before_ the shooting, you’d think he would have heard her yelling some time between bullet 1 and bullet 4. (Assuming bullet 1 didn’t instantly incapacitate her, that is). ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/50 "2013-02-21T14:52:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not what Pistorius says happened, so I assume the evidence doesn’t support it either. He says he woke up, got out of bed to move a fan on his balcony, closed the door, the blinds and the curtains, then heard a noise in the bathroom, went back to his bedroom for his gun, went to the bathroom door (while shouting to his girlfriend), and fired the gun. This is why I don’t think his story is plausible. Later in the narrative he says it was too dark to see if Reeva was in bed, but there was at some point enough light for him to get to the balcony, move an object and retrieve his gun. I guess time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/51 "2013-02-21T15:10:35Z")
Since it’s IMHO, guilty. I believe he knowingly shot her through the door. His story is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/52 "2013-02-21T22:01:22Z")
They did the same thing in the OJ case, The defense found a novelist that had interviewed detective Mark Fuhrman for a book. Fuhrman gave her background on life as a cop, suspects he dealt with, street people etc. He used a few racial slurs during the taped interview. The defense used it as part of their strategy to discredit the LAPD investigation. Pistorius’ lawyers may attempt to discredit the cops in this case. I’m not sure why. Pistorius admits shooting. The legal question is whether it was an incredibly stupid accident or murder. > [@tagos](#): > > And the whole thing descends into farce. > > [Oscar Pistorius case: lead investigator is facing attempted murder charges](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-case-police-blunders) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/53 "2013-02-21T22:11:50Z")
Botha off the case. Big shot taking over. > **[Humiliated Pistorius police chief accused of seven attempted murders is...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282087/Oscar-Pistorius-detective-Hilton-Botha-facing-attempted-murder-charges-dragged-court-fresh-humiliation.html)** > > Warrant officer Hilton Botha, who is the investigating officer in the case of sprinter Oscar Pistorius, will appear in court later this year charged with seven counts of attempted murder. > [@](#): > > The case was previously dropped but he was charged yesterday, to the surprise of prosecutors in the Pistorius case. > > This afternoon it was announced that the police officer who will take over as lead investigator on the Pistorius case is Lieutenant General Vinesh Moonoo. > > Ms Phiyega said the case would ‘receive attention at the national level’ and Mr Moonoo would ‘gather a team of highly skilled and experience detectives.’ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/54 "2013-02-21T22:18:13Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > They did the same thing in the OJ case, The defense found a novelist that had interviewed detective Mark Fuhrman for a book. Fuhrman gave her background on life as a cop, suspects he dealt with, street people etc. He used a few racial slurs during the taped interview. > > The defense used it as part of their strategy to discredit the LAPD investigation. > > Pistorius’ lawyers may attempt to discredit the cops in this case. I’m not sure why. Pistorius admits shooting. The legal question is whether it was an incredibly stupid accident or murder. Another case of life imitating life. From the sound of it right now, the prosecution will never be able to impeach Pistorius’ credibility based on the crime scene details. I certainly hope he doesn’t take a walk on this, but it sounds less likely that he’ll be convicted of premeditated homicide based on the evidence they have, and Pistorius’ noteriety giving him some benefit of the doubt to start with. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/55 "2013-02-21T22:48:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Pistorius’ lawyers may attempt to discredit the cops in this case. I’m not sure why. Because they’re trying to impeach the evidence that (according to the prosecution) shows he shot her on purpose. If it sounds like the investigation was a sloppy mess, that can only help. [Here’s a graphic of what the bathroom is supposed to look like.](http://bigstory.ap.org/interactive/ap-interactive-oscar-pistorius) If this is accurate, he was well inside the bathroom when he shot her and you can see the route he claims to have taken. And the toilet is indeed in front of the window that someone have theoretically broken in to. But it’s also hard to grasp how - after failing to notice his girlfriend wasn’t in bed while he was walking around and going back for his gun - he could have mistaken someone on the toilet for someone breaking in. Then there’s the whole idea of opening fire in the dark through a closed door without knowing who or what was on the other side. It’s not like an intruder would have been on top of him if they’d opened the door. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/56 "2013-02-21T22:55:31Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I thought I also read recently that his claim that he felt vulnearable since he didn’t have his prosthetic legs on and shot through the door from the floor… he’s using the Cotton Hill defense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/57 "2013-02-21T23:20:23Z")
I do think the forensics ought to make it obvious if he was wearing his prosthetics when he shot her. The defense’s story is that he felt vulnerable because he wasn’t wearing them, but the prosecution suggested that putting the blades on was part of his deliberation before killing her, and at some point in the bail hearing I think the defense argued that the prosecution can’t prove when he did put them on. Why mention that if you’re sure the forensics will show he was not wearing the blades when he killed her? ---
**Author:** ![FasterThanMeerkats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@FasterThanMeerkats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FasterThanMeerkats)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/58 "2013-02-22T00:01:34Z")
Can’t they just give him that test about finding a turtle on its back? :runs away: ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/59 "2013-02-22T02:09:05Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > I’m glad someone thought of a joke for this…I was stumped. He will challenge the prosecutors claims of guilt, but ultimately he will be de-feeted ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845/60 "2013-02-22T02:16:16Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > He will challenge the prosecutors claims of guilt, but ultimately he will be de-feeted Ok, that one made me chuckle. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blade-runners-court-statement-what-ya-think-guilty-or-not/650845.md?page=4)