# Blair accused of war crimes. Dossier handed into the Hague **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662 "2003-07-29T15:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/1 "2003-07-29T15:02:19Z")
[Blair accused of genocide in Iraq](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=428530) This is not about the rights or wrongs. This is about the chance of something happening in the Hague and the possible ramifications of this accusation to Blair in Britain. > [@](#): > > In any event, the court in The Hague is unlikely to hear any case against British politicians or officials. Under its procedures, the prosecutor must first decide whether there is a case to answer. Were he to conclude that Mr Blair should face legal proceedings, the British judicial authorities would be informed and given the option of taking over the case. Only if they refused to do so would the ICC start proceedings So unlikely that Blair is going to end up in a dock in the Hague but this can’t be good considering the pressure that is currently building up in the UK over the reasons for the war. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/2 "2003-07-29T15:16:13Z")
Just to add a pinch of clarity; Put simply, as the UK has signed up for the ICC, the case (if it comes to that) will be heard in the UK. As Blair went to Parliament prior to invasion and won that vote, he had a mandate from Parliament in relation to Iraq and, therefore, acted legally under UK law _in relation to the invasion itself_. And thus, this becomes a key passage: "She said allegations include three categories of offences: (a) - crimes against humanity, (b) - war crimes, and © - genocide. " and btw, this is the newly constituted ICC, not the War Crimes Tribunal - but you all knew that, didn’t ya. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/3 "2003-07-29T15:19:56Z")
**L\_C** if you could clarify this for me I’d appreciate it. How does genocide get in the mix? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/4 "2003-07-29T15:28:51Z")
. . . with a salad-sized extrapolation, a bottle of mind-altering ouzo with the truth and a Mousaka sized slab of that so-crazy Mediterranean humour. _\_ ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/5 "2003-07-29T15:32:07Z")
It’s frivolous, it’s nakedly motivated by political motives, I just wonder if they’ve actually read the treaty on what constitutes genocide. As you may or may not know I am a big supporter of the ICC and this case will be a test of the accusation that it would just be used for political vendettas, if it does not throw out this case then I would consider it to of failed that test. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/6 "2003-07-29T15:33:16Z")
I think this could be a good test for unwinnable and/or silly ICC cases being thrown out of court before they get to trial. Take note, USians. Blair might have broken international law, but as **L\_C** says, he didn’t break the law of his country, and is therefore immune from prosecution. And genocide? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/7 "2003-07-29T15:45:18Z")
Assuming that the UK does not prosecute but the ICC opts to prosecute, who would arrest Blair? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/8 "2003-07-29T15:56:57Z")
Gordon Brown 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/9 "2003-07-29T16:02:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > and btw, this is the newly constituted ICC, not the War Crimes Tribunal - but you all knew that, didn’t ya. What is the “War Crimes Tribunal”? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/10 "2003-07-29T16:04:32Z")
As **jjimm** and **L\_C** have said I don’t think this is going anywhere. I also agree with **MC Master of Ceremonies** that it is politically motivated. Thinking about it, it may even work out in Blair’s favour as Campbell et al can used it’s silliness to further spin the issue away from the actual point of going to war under false pretenses. I can just see Brown knocking at No. 10 with a warrant 😉 ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/11 "2003-07-29T16:10:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > What is the “War Crimes Tribunal”? It’s in a search engine near you: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm) - fwiw, an arm of the UN. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/12 "2003-07-29T16:13:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*Gordon Brown 😃 \*\* Funny guy. 🙂 In all seriousness though, who would arrest him? I mean it seems useless to have a trial and not bring the defendant to court, but t do that you’d need a police body that response to the courts authority right? Is there on in the UK that does/would? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/13 "2003-07-29T16:15:59Z")
I previewed, I swear.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/14 "2003-07-29T16:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*It’s in a search engine near you: > > [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm) > > - fwiw, an arm of the UN. \*\* No, London\_Calling that’s the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia set-up under UNSC resolution 808 for the prosecution of war crimes in the former Yugoslavia only. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/15 "2003-07-29T16:34:37Z")
**Grey** - Nope, no idea. I’d guess they’d need to invent a procedure. **MC Master of Ceremonies** - Yep it is. I just thought that’s the one some folks might get confused with the ICC. This is a better link: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1418304.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1418304.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/16 "2003-07-29T17:24:21Z")
Well the idea of a court that claims the right to try a person without the ability to actually bring a person to trial sounds ridiculous. I have not been paying much attention to the ICC so perhaps this has already been covered. **MC Master of Ceremonies** any insight on that? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/17 "2003-07-29T17:34:36Z")
The scary part is that I can imagine some conservative commentators in the United States seizing on this as “proof” that the ICC is evil and that George W. Bush was right for opting out. “Could you imagine this international conspiracy, with members belonging to such _wonderful_ countries like Libya and China, dragging _our_ brave soldiers into their kangaroo court to stand trial like common criminals?” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/18 "2003-07-29T18:29:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*The scary part is that I can imagine some conservative commentators in the United States seizing on this as “proof” that the ICC is evil and that George W. Bush was right for opting out. > > “Could you imagine this international conspiracy, with members belonging to such _wonderful_ countries like Libya and China, dragging _our_ brave soldiers into their kangaroo court to stand trial like common criminals?” > > :rolleyes: \*\* I wouldn’t yet dismiss their allegations, as the charges against Blair have not yet been thrown out. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/19 "2003-07-29T18:36:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*It’s in a search engine near you: > > [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm) > > - fwiw, an arm of the UN. \*\* That’s what I thought but I am still confused as that tribunal was set up ex profeso for Yougoslavia and has no jurisdiction over what has happened in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662/20 "2003-07-29T18:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*It’s in a search engine near you: > > [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2988300.stm) > > - fwiw, an arm of the UN. \*\* That’s what I thought but I am still confused as that tribunal was set up ex profeso for Yougoslavia and has no jurisdiction over what has happened in Iraq. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-accused-of-war-crimes-dossier-handed-into-the-hague/191662.md?page=2)