# Blair calls British election for 5/5/05 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830 "2005-04-05T13:08:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/41 "2005-04-08T11:40:51Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > The Guardian is by most people’s standards a left wing paper. Agreed, as a regular Times reader I can safely say that the only thing I like about the Guardian is the science supplement, which is better and more frequent than other broad sheets, which seem more arts oriented. Other than that, the sooner we get rid of Blair and his dishonest, grinning face, the better, although frankly I doubt that the tories will win the election, they seem too determined to tear themselves apart with internal squabbles. Which only leaves the yellow party, aaargh!! Looks like I’ll be down the pub on 5th May. Just for the record in my local constituency we only ever get the big two and the lib dems, who to be frank don’t even get a look in. I may drag myself to vote for the blues if only to stop Labour from further buggering up the NHS. I live in a village and the Labour parties next big idea, is to amalgamte doctors surgeries into giant collectives (Soviet Union? style). So if they get their way my local docs will close and I will just have not to get sick. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/42 "2005-04-08T13:15:41Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > No, judging by the Tory councillors here, it’s not. It’s funny how being a Labour or Lib Dem councillor means working hard, though… 😉 Councillors fall into two main groups in my experience - those who get inviegled into doing it and do as little as possible (this was me). We actively dislike the constituents (who are invariably a bunch of scratters who “know their rights” and think the world owes them a living). The other group are those who harbour ambitions to higher things. They do work hard but they’re total cocksockets in every other way. They often have shiny suits. Frankly, in the same way as special constables and magistrates, anyone who wants to be one should be instantly barred from applying to be one. Owl - cynical. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/43 "2005-04-08T15:37:19Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Nonsense. There is nothing socialist about the Guardian. You must be kidding. You do know how it’s run, don’t you? > [@](#): > > As for your second point - adverts are not public subsidy, even ignoring the same ‘subsidy’ that goes to the right wing rags like the Times. The Guardian receives many adverts for public appointments, particularly from ‘loony-left’ councils, which are not advertised elsewhere. As for the Times, you’re the first person in a long while to call it a ‘rag’ - it’s centrist but with a heavy touch of Murdoch IMO. There are two right-ish papers in the U.K.: the Mail (soft right) and the Telegraph (not-so-soft right); Americans would likely consider both to the left of the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/44 "2005-04-08T15:59:46Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Councillors fall into two main groups in my experience - those who get inviegled into doing it and do as little as possible (this was me). We actively dislike the constituents (who are invariably a bunch of scratters who “know their rights” and think the world owes them a living). > > The other group are those who harbour ambitions to higher things. They do work hard but they’re total cocksockets in every other way. They often have shiny suits. You’re forgetting the third group: those who are in it for the money and get every allowance, expense, and freebie going. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/45 "2005-04-08T16:15:45Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Yeah, obviously tight votes mean small parties can swing the results. In that case, every Labour and Tory backbencher has the same power. I actually meant the normal workings of government and parliament - hence the term ‘three party system’, for which I’ll resist the italics this time. In what way, then, does the third party (meaning in practice; the Lib Dems) contribute to _the system_ that the ‘small parties’ don’t ? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/46 "2005-04-08T19:34:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > The Guardian receives many adverts for public appointments, particularly from ‘loony-left’ councils, which are not advertised elsewhere. Oh, yawn yawn. Different newspapers have, over time, become the ‘specialist’ place to advertise specific fields. Classical music jobs always go in the Telegraph, for no reason whatsoever other than everybody expecting them to be there. And they to are often operating with a public subsidy. > [@](#): > > There are two right-ish papers in the U.K.: **the Mail (soft right)** That’s a joke, isn’t it? If not, then it explains why some people are suggesting the Guardian is socialist… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/47 "2005-04-08T20:09:24Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > (re The Daily Mail) That’s a joke, isn’t it? If not, then it explains why some people are suggesting the Guardian is socialist… As someone who buys the Mail more for the games pages (I particularly like the Bridge column and the Sodoku game - I can complete the games all within my lunch hour) than its politics, I can assure you my analysis is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/48 "2005-04-08T20:20:42Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > As someone who buys the Mail more for the games pages (I particularly like the Bridge column and the Sodoku game - I can complete the games all within my lunch hour) than its politics, I can assure you my analysis is spot on. OK, that’s a first…maybe the Guardian crossword is centre-right, how would I know? ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/49 "2005-04-08T21:08:09Z")
The Daily Mail is easily the furthest right paper. Simply because, unlike the Torygraph, it has no pretensions and doesn’t feel it has to intellectually justify its pandering to knee-jerk, small-minded prejudice. So it just wades right in there. Typical Mail scare-mongering headline; **Councils Raise Taxes To House Gypsies - Property Market Crashes**. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/50 "2005-04-08T21:31:00Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > In my (very biased) opinion, they attempt to be the party that mops up the votes of those who don’t like the two main parties by apprently appearing to be both in favour of Socialistic things like higher taxes and also more right wing things like being anti-ID cards. I can assure you that opposition to ID cards is not merely a “right wing thing”. And **Futile Gesture** , what about the SSP? (Not that I’d vote for them, I’m just curious since you didn’t mention them) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/51 "2005-04-08T21:37:25Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > I can assure you that opposition to ID cards is not merely a “right wing thing” Absolutely. I missed this earlier - since when did such an idea become left-wing in your ( **owl** ’s) eyes? It strikes me as an inherently right-wing policy. Something that certain members of the past Tory governments might have toyed with… ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/52 "2005-04-08T22:00:11Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > And **Futile Gesture** , what about the SSP? (Not that I’d vote for them, I’m just curious since you didn’t mention them) Though they’d deny it, the SSP were always a one-man party. Now that Tommy’s stood down they’re not likely to last long without falling to the usual far-left political malaise; splits. And I wouldn’t vote for them anyway. Like most of the far left they’re well meaning dreamers who either have little idea of how the big bad world works, (like it or not), or believe we can opt out of it if we want. And Rosie Kane gets on my nerves even more than Tommy Sheridan ever managed, chiefly because they media find her ever such good value. Tommy was always a bit too threatening for their tastes, but Rosie is just perfect for the acceptable face of socialism. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/53 "2005-04-09T12:07:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > You’re forgetting the third group: those who are in it for the money and get every allowance, expense, and freebie going. The money’s fuck all - pocket money at best. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/54 "2005-04-09T12:10:50Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Absolutely. I missed this earlier - since when did such an idea become left-wing in your ( **owl** ’s) eyes? It strikes me as an inherently right-wing policy. Something that certain members of the past Tory governments might have toyed with… Nope - it’s a leftie thing - Socialism is all about control. Think Russia, Eastern Bloc, North Korea China etc. (and save me the the inevitable bleat about how these aren’t “really socialist”.) Every politician gets a mad idea from time to time (remeber football ID cards?), but grown-up people don’t actually try and enact them. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/55 "2005-04-09T12:18:59Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Nope - it’s a leftie thing - Socialism is all about control. Think Russia, Eastern Bloc, North Korea China etc. …Burma, Zimbabwe…totalitarian governments of all kinds have a penchant for ID cards. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/56 "2005-04-09T12:31:17Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > …Burma, Zimbabwe…totalitarian governments of all kinds have a penchant for ID cards. Totaliitarian = socialist (In ALL cases - really it does, think about it.) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/57 "2005-04-09T12:45:33Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > The money’s fuck all - pocket money at best. This was not the case when I was in the employ of a County Council. I wouldn’t want to live on the money, but it made a very nice supplementary income for a retired person or for someone who would otherwise be staying at home. All those free lunches, mileage allowances, meetings allowances, free computers etc do add up. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/58 "2005-04-09T12:48:03Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Totaliitarian = socialist (In ALL cases - really it does, think about it.) All totalitarian government is inherently socialist? OK, I can go with that. But not all socialist government is totalitarian. So one isn’t equivalent to the other. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/59 "2005-04-09T12:48:56Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > This was not the case when I was in the employ of a County Council. I wouldn’t want to live on the money, but it made a very nice supplementary income for a retired person or for someone who would otherwise be staying at home. All those free lunches, mileage allowances, meetings allowances, free computers etc do add up. From memory I got about £8,500 pa - including all the allowances. People who sat on the various commitees got more, but that was also a lot more work. This may all have changed, it was a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830/60 "2005-04-09T12:54:24Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > Typical Mail scare-mongering headline; **Councils Raise Taxes To House Gypsies - Property Market Crashes**. Cite? On exactly which day did this headline appear? A search of the Daily Mail Website turns up nothing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blair-calls-british-election-for-5-5-05/297830.md?page=4)