# Blank-firing replica machine guns **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 30, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859 "2005-04-30T14:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/1 "2005-04-30T14:30:34Z")
The guys and I are thinking of low-budget ‘film’ ideas. (i.e., we’ll shoot on DV to save costs; so they’re technically videos.) One of them involves an ‘assassin’ character, and another is a ‘spy film’. We’ll need prop machine guns. I was watching a film called _Counselling Day_, a film made a few miles down the road in Mt. Vernon, and one scene involves a pastor who gets ahold of a MAC-10. This prop is blowback operated and uses 8mm (?) blanks. It would be neat to find the same thing in an MP5K or MP5. Real prop machine guns are out of the question because they are real machine guns that have been modified. Impossible to obtain in this state, not to mention the expense if they _were_ available. We _could_ rent them from an armorer like Stembridge Gun Rentals, but I don’t know about the legalities of that. (They do a good business in California, which has more restrictive firearms laws, though.) Hiring actual prop guns and an armorer would take a huge bite out of the budget. There are very accurate ‘airsoft’ guns that would work on-screen until they’re fired. I’d really like to have the ‘spent brass’ coming out of the gun as happened in _Counselling Day_. We could do some clever editing, digital effects, and foley; but it would be easier and cheaper to do in ‘in camera’. Fortunately I’ve found ‘Hollywood-type’ blank firing adaptors for the AR-15s (which can stand for M-16s); but those rifles really don’t fit the role. (Pretty hard to conceal an M-16!) Does anyone know who makes, or made, blank firing (not airsoft) machine gun replicas, and if they make anything cooler than a MAC-10? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/2 "2005-04-30T16:19:12Z")
Check what [this guy has.](http://www.fightdesigner.com/firearms.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/3 "2005-04-30T16:28:41Z")
If you wanna be cheap about it, the director of the fan film [_Grayson_](http://www.stupidscifi.com/mambo/n225-Batman_Fan_Film_Grayson.html) (which I strongly recommend), John Fiorella, used a simple process: have the shooter hold a prop gun with the barrel pointed out of frame and use a strobe light to simulate muzzle flashes. Use sparkler-type firecrackers to simulate the bullet hits. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/4 "2005-04-30T16:38:53Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Check what [this guy has.](http://www.fightdesigner.com/firearms.html) Nice page. There’s a brass-ejecting MP5, but no indication of the manufacturer. > [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > If you wanna be cheap about it… Not _too_ cheap! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/5 "2005-04-30T17:07:41Z")
How good a cameraman are you? Perhaps you could approach a local army base and - under supervision - use a real one in return for recording their passing out parade or something? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/6 "2005-04-30T17:15:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > How good a cameraman are you? Perhaps you could approach a local army base and - under supervision - use a real one in return for recording their passing out parade or something? I think I’m a pretty fair cameraman. Personally, I’d rather not deal with the military right now. I get the idea that nerves are stretched pretty thin, and it would be difficult to get such support – especially on a non-military-oriented film. (We only have the barest story ideas right not, BTW. No script yet.) On the other hand, my pard is a former Army scout. He might still have some connections. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/7 "2005-04-30T18:53:04Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > How good a cameraman are you? Perhaps you could approach a local army base and - under supervision - use a real one in return for recording their passing out parade or something? Er, I can almost abosutely guarantee this ain’t gonna happen. However, you might check with local law enforcement; Special Tactics usually has blank-firing guns for practice in “hot” entries. Depending on the nature of your film and what favors you might be able to offer them, it’s possible they could offer a deal. I know, or at least used to know, a couple of gun wranglers here in Sparkletown here who could no doubt provide you with what you need, but as you say, that might take up a significant amount of budget. Also, you might try posting on the Usenet rec.guns list and see what shakes out. (I’d point you to the FIREARMS listserv, but I think it died a quiet death several years ago.) Else, try calling local gun shops and see if there isn’t a gun club in the area that specializes in military/full auto weapons; maybe a collector would be willing to let you borrow a gun in exchange for credit or a cameo. As far as using a replica and showing brass, you can show that with appropriate camera angles (to conceal the ejection port) and a CLOSEUP of brass falling on the floor/pavement, which is a typical technique. Most people won’t notice that the gun isn’t spraying brass anyway. Heck, the film _Freejack_ (awful film, don’t bother watching it) has a CWMG on the poster that is clearly loaded with blanks. Kudos for you, of course, for wanting to get it right, but most people don’t know Jack, Jill, or Johann about firearms. I’m curious about the plot/story of your film, but won’t be offended if that is “proprietary” right now. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/8 "2005-04-30T20:24:36Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] As far as using a replica and showing brass, you can show that with appropriate camera angles (to conceal the ejection port) and a CLOSEUP of brass falling on the floor/pavement [quote] That’s exactly my back-up plan. > [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Most people won’t notice that the gun isn’t spraying brass anyway. Counting on that, if I can’t get brass-ejecting replicas. > [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > I’m curious about the plot/story of your film, but won’t be offended if that is “proprietary” right now. We’re still tossing around ideas. Nothing definite yet. Robert Rodriquez got to use real machine guns in _El Mariachi_. Of course, they wouldn’t cycle using blanks. He got a shot of the muzzle flash and repeated it with a jump cut, showed the squibs going off on the target actor, and foleyed the audio. Works great. Of course, a replica won’t have a muzzle flash. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/9 "2005-04-30T20:57:12Z")
Incidentally, as a military member currently assigned to a weapons vault, I echo S-on-a-T’s doubt that a filmmaker will ever be able to borrow weapons. They’re kinda strict about that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blank-firing-replica-machine-guns/301859/10 "2005-04-30T21:17:35Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > We’re still tossing around ideas. Nothing definite yet. Feature length or a short? Stranger