# Blatant lies in political ads **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 8, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848 "2012-08-08T12:48:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/41 "2012-08-09T23:42:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You’ll also notice that Democrats constantly trot out the talking point that the Republican House has not passed any jobs bills. Except they did. Cutting taxes and regulations is not a jobs bill. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/42 "2012-08-09T23:47:05Z")
The Willie Horton ad was misleading in that the Federal furlough system was just as bad, if not worse. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/43 "2012-08-09T23:47:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s easy: > > [PolitiFact | Obama ad says Romney opposed abortion, even in cases of rape and incest](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/25/barack-obama/romney-abortion-rape-incest/) That’s a good one, thank you - a truly deceptive and misleading commercial, which could have easily been made factual and still been effective simply by telling the truth. If an Obama commercial says that Romney has no jobs plan I’ll call that a lie too - he has a shitty plan, but it’s a plan. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/44 "2012-08-09T23:54:13Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > That’s a good one, thank you - a truly deceptive and misleading commercial, which could have easily been made factual and still been effective simply by telling the truth. > > If an Obama commercial says that Romney has no jobs plan I’ll call that a lie too - he has a shitty plan, but it’s a plan. Do you understand that Romney said he would sign a bill that opposed all abortions? Do you understand that Politifact couldn’t tell a lie or the truth from a hole in their ass? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/45 "2012-08-09T23:54:42Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Cutting taxes and regulations is not a jobs bill. If you believe that, then you’re right. And if conservatives believe that just spending money to hire people on public projects is not a jobs bill, then they are right too. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/46 "2012-08-09T23:57:58Z")
I believe this is the first time in a quite awhile that the Democratic Party has started using the political tactics of the GOP against the GOP. This appears to disturb the GOP and its partisans. And we see an echo of that disturbance here in the hallowed ranks of the SDMB. Just because we fight ignorance doesn’t mean we don’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/47 "2012-08-10T00:00:25Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > That’s a good one, thank you - a truly deceptive and misleading commercial, which could have easily been made factual and still been effective simply by telling the truth. > > If an Obama commercial says that Romney has no jobs plan I’ll call that a lie too - he has a shitty plan, but it’s a plan. With politicians we need to grade on a curve. Not so much because they are more dishonest than regular folks, although they are, but because they speak in soundbytes. Sometimes there is no interpretation of what they said that isn’t dishonest. In those cases, they are usually trying to mislead and believe that the political advantage gained will outweigh getting busted. Sometimes they are just trying to simplify a complex issue in a way favorable to their side of the issue and figure most of the public will see it their way. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/48 "2012-08-10T00:01:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s easy: > > [PolitiFact | Obama ad says Romney opposed abortion, even in cases of rape and incest](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/25/barack-obama/romney-abortion-rape-incest/) Ok I sent a request to [whitehouse.gov](http://whitehouse.gov) that they stop using this misleading ad. > [@](#): > > Do you honestly not know that Obama’s campaign is lying frequently? If so, the problem in this thread comes down to some serious information assymmetry. You guys must be reading only liberal blogs or something. Frequently that’s well one. Got anymore? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/49 "2012-08-10T00:03:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > With politicians we need to grade on a curve. Not so much because they are more dishonest than regular folks, although they are, but because they speak in soundbytes. > > Sometimes there is no interpretation of what they said that isn’t dishonest. In those cases, they are usually trying to mislead and believe that the political advantage gained will outweigh getting busted. Sometimes they are just trying to simplify a complex issue in a way favorable to their side of the issue and figure most of the public will see it their way. Do you not understand that Mitt Romney said he would sign a bill that outlawed all abortions? It is the absolute truth to say that Romney opposes abortions even in the case of rape or incest. Do you know the difference between truth and lies? It’s not a subjective call in this case. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/50 "2012-08-10T00:03:58Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > I believe this is the first time in a quite awhile that the Democratic Party has started using the political tactics of the GOP against the GOP. This appears to disturb the GOP and its partisans. > > And we see an echo of that disturbance here in the hallowed ranks of the SDMB. > > Just because we fight ignorance doesn’t mean we don’t understand it. That’s a good point. the GOP has often done a much better job of destroying their opponents through dirty campaigning. Problem is, the Democrats just aren’t very good at it. And REpublicans aren’t sweating it much. Which is why you are hearing most of the whining coming from the Democratic side. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/51 "2012-08-10T00:05:24Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do you not understand that Mitt Romney said he would sign a bill that outlawed all abortions? It is the absolute truth to say that Romney opposes abortions even in the case of rape or incest. Do you know the difference between truth and lies? It’s not a subjective call in this case. You’d have to explain which bill he was talking about. The Politifact article cites the Human Life Amendment, which does contain exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/52 "2012-08-10T00:08:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do you not understand that Mitt Romney said he would sign a bill that outlawed all abortions? It is the absolute truth to say that Romney opposes abortions even in the case of rape or incest. Do you know the difference between truth and lies? It’s not a subjective call in this case. No, it’s really not the truth. Before the source of that quote and immediately after it he re-iterated his support for a ban on abortions with an exception for rape and incest. He’s been pretty clear on that - including when he was asked about, for example, the South Dakota ban. Trust me, I’m as much in the Obama camp as anybody and looked pretty hard for a way to make this one stick, but it’s just not true to say that Romney wants to ban abortions even in the case of rape and incest or if the life of the mother is at risk. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/53 "2012-08-10T00:09:56Z")
But in defense of Obama, what if Romney SAID it at some point? There’s a lot of gray in these political debates, which is why I think the “lie” accusation gets overused. There are just some things that are fair in politics that wouldn’t be fair in debate on a discussion board or around the water cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2012, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848/54 "2012-08-10T01:15:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > As for the jobs plan, the Obama campaign response to Romney’s statement is instructive: > > Obama campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt fired back at Romney over the line. > > “Where is Romney’s jobs plan?” he told TPM. “Look through his economic plan - it’s more tax cuts for millionaires, billionaires, and large corporations, and letting Wall Street write its own rules again. Not a jobs plan.” > > [http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/mitt-romney-says-president-obama-has-no-jobs-plan----not-true.php](http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/01/mitt-romney-says-president-obama-has-no-jobs-plan----not-true.php) > > So we’ve established that it’s okay to call something “not a jobs plan” if you don’t actually believe it’s a jobs plan. Therefore, Romney did not lie. > > You’ll also notice that Democrats constantly trot out the talking point that the Republican House has not passed any jobs bills. Except they did. So apparently, what is and is not a jobs plan is a legitimate subject for debate, and thus saying your opponent doesn’t have one does not qualify as a lie. Oh? See, that’s interesting, especially given your later post: > [@](#): > > If you believe that, then you’re right. And if conservatives believe that just spending money to hire people on public projects is not a jobs bill, then they are right too. Can we agree that a bill slashing government financing to orphanages is not a jobs bill? That it’s not a bill focused primarily on creating new jobs, and if someone was to claim “this is a jobs bill”, you would laugh and tell that person to fuck off, or something to that extent. Right? So we can agree that, to _some_ degree, “Jobs bill” is a term that means something. So let’s compare Obama’s jobs plan to the republican jobs plan. The former clearly intends to create jobs – it cuts payroll taxes on small businesses, making hiring people cheaper; it directly creates jobs by offering infrastructure jobs to bidding businesses, tax credits to businesses for hiring long-time unemployed citizens, et cetera. It has essentially everything you’d expect a bill with the intent of creating and maintaining jobs would have. The latter? Well, what are we even talking about? I have _no idea_. What, exactly, passed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blatant-lies-in-political-ads/630848.md?page=2)