A couple of years ago when my check engine light came on, I went to the auto parts store and read the code for free. It indicated a leak in the evaporative emissions recovery system. I know exactly what that system is and does, but I didn’t know exactly which component needed replacing. Fuel tank? Filler cap? Charcoal cannister? Vacuum line? Rather than spend two hours under my car - periodically wriggling out to reference my service manual - in an exhaustive effort to track down what very well could be a pinhole leak, I dropped the car off at the dealer, where they charged me $100 and identified exactly which component (in this case, a cracked cannister) I needed to replace. I considered it money well-spent.
A couple of months ago the light came on again, and a trip to the auto parts store revealed the same code. Another $100 visit to the dealer, and they pointed to another aging component that was flaking out; I replaced it, cleared the code, and all was well. Another $100 well-spent.
It’s a free-market economy: any consumer who who feels that a service provider is asking for a “ludicrous” fee for their service is free to shop around to see if they can find someone willing to perform the needed service for less. If you can’t find someone who will work for less, then it would seem the first price was not, in fact, “ludicrous” after all.
Regarding the diagnostics fee, at least where I take my car (a Honda dealership), you pay the fee up front, $90 I think. If they find something wrong and you opt to have it fixed whatever is left of the diagnostics fee (and if all they did is scan it, that’s more or less the entire $90) goes towards the repair bill. So it’s not like you’re just tossing $90 at a 5 minute project and then having to pay them to repair the car as well.
They just don’t want to spend an hour tracking down the problem and then having someone deciding they don’t want to fix their car and walking off without paying anything.
I have news for you. This is how most businesses set their prices, particularly those that sell labor. It’s called a free market. I set a price for my services by surveying the market, or reading tea leaves, or by spinning the wheel of fortune.
If my price is too low I’m swamped but will go out of business. If my price is too high I’m very lonely on my way out of business.
If my price is right I’m a happy (and successful) camper.
A couple of years ago when my check engine light came on, I went to the auto parts store and read the code for free. It indicated a leak in the evaporative emissions recovery system.
What about the evaporative emissions recovery system has a deleterious effect on the car itself.? If you were willing to spend $100 plus repair costs to fix something that you only knew was broken because the computer told you it was then I can see we have totally opposed value systems when it comes to money. I like to keep mine and you like to throw yours away.
And to Joey P.: IF what you describe is how Firestone worked I would have no complaint at all. I absolutely believe a mechanic should not be wasting his time educating me on what exactly is wrong, however, since they also did the repair I consider this double billing, diagnosis should be part of the repair.
15 years ago, when things were much harder to figure out then they are now, mechanics never charged for diagnosis, only for repair.
Also, concerning my initial problem: My now deceased father-in-law, who was a real mechanic, would have diagnosed my ignition coil problem in much less time it would take today’s “mechanic” to warm up their diagnostic machine.
In a broad sense, diagnosis is part of the repair. But if you believe that the diagnostic portion (testing, research, evaluation, etc.) should be provided free, with the customer only paying for the nuts and bolts segment of the job, then don’t ever open an auto repair shop. You’d go broke in short order.
15 years ago? Hah! Maybe 30 years ago, when electronic control systems were just being introduced, before the repair industry fully grasped what was involved in dealing with the new level of technology. All the shops I know were certainly charging for diagnostic procedures 15 years ago.
I’m sure he was capable, but I see this statement as coming from an idealized memory without true understanding of today’s systems.
Yea, and furthermore, back in my day, you could buy a candy bar for a nickel! The mechanic has to make a living too, buddy. Prices are up all the ways around.
I am getting old. Yes, closer to 30 than 15, for sure.
And not really idealized. One cylinder was not firing. He would have removed the wire, checked for a spark, back tracked from there, and figured it out in 2 minutes or less, really.
My idealized memory is me trying to fix a carburetor, handing him my results, which was a bag of little metal pieces and springs, and having a working carburetor in about 30 minutes.
Primary reason is that I intend to sell the car someday; prospective buyers will be far less interested in the car if the CE light is illuminated. So I can fix it now, or fix it right before I sell it, but either way it needs to get fixed.
Secondary reason is the sin of pride: I enjoy feeling like I’m not driving around in a piece-of-shit car, and having the CE light come on every time I start the engine really puts a damper on that feeling.
Tertiary reason is that the car is polluting more than it should. I’m hardly a tree-hugger, but I feel I have a responsibility to at least try to keep my vehicles running properly.
It was $100 plus the cost of the part; I installed it myself. We may disagree about the merits of a given car repair, but if I feel a car ought to be repaired, I value both my time and my money, and tend to strike a balance between the two.
You seem to have some strong opinions about how a car repair business ought to be run, and some deep-seated complaints about how existing car repair businesses operate. If you think all of them are ripping off customers with ludicrous charges, then perhaps there’s a valuable business opportunity here for you. Consider opening an auto repair shop and running it according to some of the precepts you’ve outlined in this thread. Your prices will be lower than those of the competition; customers will flock to your door, and you will surely prosper.
Whereas nowadays one has to identify the missing cylinder, sort out whether it’s a faulty coil (one coil per cylinder, no plug wires), faulty signal to the coil, faulty fuel injector, faulty signal to the injector, faulty spark plug, or a mechanical problem. Takes more than two minutes, really.
Yup come on down, open a shop and show us how it is done. Obviously Gary T and I don’t know how to run a shop despite our decades of professional experience.
My car was having similar problems, I had a diagnostic run at a local shop for $40, the mechanic told me a blinking check engine light is always a coil. I changed it myself and the car ran normally. I should have changed the other coil at the same time as it needed it a few months later. Good luck!
While I wouldn’t be surprised if a failed coil was the culprit a lot of the time, a flashing CEL actually means “repeated misfire, catalyst damage imminent.”
The OP has it easy. Try pricing diagnostic and repair work on such items as commercial fire alarm panels, 100 ton chillers, elevators, emergency generators and transfer switches, and the like. It’s even more fun when you have to fly the guy in from out of state on your dime. Of course, that comes out of my employer’s pocket and not mine, but yeah, these guys (and guys like Gary T and Rick) have real costs they have to cover. Skilled labor has a price.
It shocks people who rarely have to deal with it, but it’s legitimate.
Without coming squarely down on either side of the argument, I think the OP might feel better if the diagnostic charge was apportioned based on how much time was spent doing the diagnostic instead of being given a flat rate. If the mechanic hooks up the machine, gets a code, and replaces the correct part in an hour then $100 is fair. If the mechanic hooks up the machine, gets the code, replaces the part in 10 minutes, then the charge seems excessive. Yes?
Question to the repair-for-a-living people: If you mis-diagnose the problem the first time you run the diagnostic, having to run it a second or third time, do you charge $100 for each of these as well? (Not trying to make a point, just curious.)
Depends on what was agreed upon before the work began. Customer asks for diagnosis, mechanic says “$100 flat fee regardless of how long it takes.” Customer says “OK, go ahead.” Transaction is now “fair,” even if mechanic only takes five minutes, because the customer agreed beforehand that this outcome would be acceptable. If customer does not feel this arrangement is fair, they are free to look around for a different mechanic who will offer an arrangement that the customer deems satisfactory.
Want to try something that is an order of magnitude harder than getting a $100 diagnostic fee upfront? Quote a 20 diagnostic fee and then when you don't find it in 10 minutes go back to the customer get approval for more and have them NOT scream bloody murder that you are doing a bait and switch, you are a thief, and you are ripping them off.
Go through that dance a time or 5 and you will no longer wonder why the shop quotes $100 up front.
Now I don’t know about other shops but I often lower or waive the diagnostic fee for something simple and silly.
As far as when more diagnosis is needed, it depends. If we knew upfront that the car is a shitbox and likely has more than one problem we will tell the customer that we will fix the first issue and after that additional diagnosis at additional charges may be needed.
On the other hand if the issue was sold as this is what you need period and that repair does not fix the car I am probably eating some diagnostic time and quite likely some parts to make it right for the customer.
Customer attitude has a lot to do with this.
Sounds like my Grandpa. Back when he was alive we had a problem with our furnace at work (We all work(ed) together and this was before I could fix a lot of this stuff myself). Called in a furnace repair guy. He spent about a half hour testing all kinds of stuff and finally traced it down to a bad circuit board. My grandpa huffed and puffed and said to me “Why didn’t he check that first”. I told him that if he HAD checked that first and it was something else you would have been mad at him for not checking that first.
No. The time spent is irrelevant. You are paying for the expertise, training and equipment that makes it possible to diagnose the problem quickly and efficiently.
When you pop into your local hospital to have a MRI of your head, it only takes a few minutes and then they just look at the pictures and tell you if there is anything wrong. Why the hell should that cost $3000? It only took a few minutes.
You are paying for expensive equipment, expensive training, and knowledge.
With auto repair you can always buy your own cheap code reader at the auto parts store and start throwing parts at the problem. Was it the plugs? Nope. Let’s change the wires. Nope. Let’s change all the coils, did that fix it? Nope.
Continue as you see fit. Or pay someone that will actually tell you what needs to be done.
Maybe I’ll change the CATs too, did that fix it? Nope…
That $100 diagnostic charge can start to look real cheap, real fast.
