# Bloke assaults woman on flight - now faces life in prison - is this excessive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 19, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872 "2018-08-19T15:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/1 "2018-08-19T15:32:46Z")
So this guy [sexually assaults](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/08/18/jury-convicts-man-for-sexually-assaulting-a-woman-on-a-plane-as-his-wife-sat-next-to-him/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.94bc1a980473) a young woman on a Spirit Airlines flight. He gets convicted for it, and while sentencing has not happened yet, it is possible this guy is sentenced to life in prison. As serious as his crime is, is life in prison disproportionately excessive? Does the fact that this crime occurred on a flight add to its gravity - I mean if it happened on a beach would he still be sentenced to life in prison? Do US juries have wide leeway in determining the quantum of sentences? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/2 "2018-08-19T15:44:00Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > So this guy [sexually assaults](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/08/18/jury-convicts-man-for-sexually-assaulting-a-woman-on-a-plane-as-his-wife-sat-next-to-him/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.94bc1a980473) a young woman on a Spirit Airlines flight. He gets convicted for it, and while sentencing has not happened yet, it is possible this guy is sentenced to life in prison. > > As serious as his crime is, is life in prison disproportionately excessive? Well, if she’d killed him, I’d vote to acquit her. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/3 "2018-08-19T15:51:11Z")
In a country where everyone had to swallow a rapist getting six months, much as they despised it as unjust, this seems a little like the pendulum swinging the other way. Possibly also unjust. But really, brown guy assaults white woman and gets overly harsh sentence. Is this really shocking news? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/4 "2018-08-19T15:54:41Z")
Per [this document](https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/training/primers/2015_Primer_Sex_Offense_Abuse.pdf) (pdf): > [@](#): > > 18 U.S.C. § 2242 (Sexual Abuse) > Prohibits knowingly causing another person to engage in a sexual act by threatening > or placing that person in fear (other than by threatening or placing that other person in > fear that any person will be subjected to death, serious bodily injury, or kidnapping); or > engaging in a sexual act with another person if that person is not capable of appraising the > nature of the conduct or is physically incapable of declining or communicating > unwillingness to engage in that sexual act. Section 2242 includes attempt, and has **no > statutory minimum and has a maximum penalty of life**. Prior to actual sentencing, one might equally claim to be outraged that he may theoretically face no penalty at all. The reality here is just that there is wide leeway in sentencing, but of course the journalist is making the story more dramatic by citing the upper limit on the range. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/5 "2018-08-19T16:05:26Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Per [this document](https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/training/primers/2015_Primer_Sex_Offense_Abuse.pdf) (pdf): > > Prior to actual sentencing, one might equally claim to be outraged that he may theoretically face no penalty at all. The reality here is just that there is wide leeway in sentencing, but of course the journalist is making the story more dramatic by citing the upper limit on the range. This. He in no way realistically faces life in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/6 "2018-08-19T16:08:35Z")
I think life imprisonment (if there is no possibility of parole) is essentially tantamount to the death penalty and therefore should be reserved only for either murderers or perpetrators who have demonstrated that they are so incorrigibly violent or criminal that they cannot be rehabilitated. So, yes, life imprisonment would be excessive in this case. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/7 "2018-08-19T17:22:29Z")
What a nasty little story. If the man meets the requirements I have no trouble with life in prison, no matter the racial classification of the victim. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/8 "2018-08-19T20:51:25Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > So this guy [sexually assaults](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2018/08/18/jury-convicts-man-for-sexually-assaulting-a-woman-on-a-plane-as-his-wife-sat-next-to-him/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.94bc1a980473) a young woman on a Spirit Airlines flight. He gets convicted for it, and while sentencing has not happened yet, it is possible this guy is sentenced to life in prison. > > As serious as his crime is, is life in prison disproportionately excessive? Does the fact that this crime occurred on a flight add to its gravity - I mean if it happened on a beach would he still be sentenced to life in prison? > > Do US juries have wide leeway in determining the quantum of sentences? Juries don’t decide sentence terms in the US, I don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/9 "2018-08-19T20:52:59Z")
> [@j666](#): > > What a nasty little story. If the man meets the requirements I have no trouble with life in prison, no matter the racial classification of the victim. I agree. If this happened in the presence of children, that may account for the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/10 "2018-08-19T20:58:41Z")
Many crimes have “life” as the maximum allowable sentence. It’s not the\* likely\* sentence, or even the “guideline sentence.” It is something the guy might want to worry about, but I’d expect something in the range of 2 to 5 years (assuming no priors). If he gets life, then we can bump this thread and discuss whether it was an injustice. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/11 "2018-08-19T21:10:33Z")
It’s a Federal crime, which makes a difference in the sentencing rules. Further, the government does not take crimes committed in aircraft lightly. I doubt he’ll get life, but I hope he has several long, unpleasant years to contemplate his immediate expulsion from the country. What a sorry excuse for a human being. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/12 "2018-08-19T21:48:42Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Does the fact that this crime occurred on a flight add to its gravity - I mean if it happened on a beach would he still be sentenced to life in prison? > > Do US juries have wide leeway in determining the quantum of sentences? What happening inflight did was put it under \*Federal \*jurisdiction. Had this happened on a muncipal public beach the case would have been prosecuted and tried under the laws of the State/Territory where it happened. And those State/Territorial laws vary in what penalties they impose and on how they define the different degrees of penalty, from no minimum to a hard mandatory minimum that may be higher or lower than their neighbor’s and from open-ended maximum to variety of maxima (again can be greater or lesser than the neighbors’) depending on aggravating or mitigating factors. So what in one state would be “up to ten years” in another one would be “no less than five years” and in another could be “from three to eight years” and yes, even “up to life”; and depending on the degree of offense it could variously include an exclusion from probation, or a temporary or permanent inclusion in the registry of offenders As far as I am aware in US Federal Court the jury does not determine the sentence in non-capital cases. In this case I can see prosecution seeking something at the lower end of the range, to be followed by deportation and permaban from the USA at first opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/13 "2018-08-20T00:17:47Z")
Probably the best punishment for such creeps would be to secure a non-bailable warrant for them back in the country of origin (in this case India) followed by an immediate deportation. Indian prisons are hellholes compared to American ones; he can enjoy his stay in the cesspool. Saves a bunch of taxpayer dollars, too. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/14 "2018-08-20T00:27:43Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > As serious as his crime is, is life in prison disproportionately excessive? …there are people in America serving [life](https://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/02/opinion/vanita-gupta-marijuana-life-sentence/index.html)-[in](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/opinion/outrageous-sentences-for-marijuana.html)-[prison](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/life-sentence-marijuana-pot-prison-commuted/) for much-much less than this. The whole system is just plain fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/15 "2018-08-20T00:42:10Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Probably the best punishment for such creeps would be to secure a non-bailable warrant for them back in the country of origin (in this case India) followed by an immediate deportation. Indian prisons are hellholes compared to American ones; he can enjoy his stay in the cesspool. Saves a bunch of taxpayer dollars, too. Didn’t you only just kick this off by worrying that his punishment would be excessive in the US? What’s your primary concern, here? ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/16 "2018-08-20T00:47:21Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Didn’t you only just kick this off by worrying that his punishment would be excessive in the US? What’s your primary concern, here? The length of the sentence. Life sentences in India are rare (as they should be) and reserved for serious cases such as murder, rape, terrorism. BUT, as I said, Indian prisons are hell on earth, and no one is going to forget even a brief stay in there. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/17 "2018-08-20T01:12:50Z")
I couldn’t get into the OP’s article (WaPo subscription only) so I went and found a different one. [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/402564-man-convicted-of-sexually-abusing-sleeping-passenger-on-spirit](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/402564-man-convicted-of-sexually-abusing-sleeping-passenger-on-spirit) > [@The Hill link above](#): > > A 22-year-old woman told police that she had fallen asleep against the window when she woke up to find that the man seated next to her in the middle seat had his hand down her unbuttoned pants and that her shirt was undone. > > The woman then had to push past Ramamoorthy and his wife, who was seated in the aisle seat, to notify flight attendants at the back of the plane. > > \ > > When he was later interviewed by the FBI — which investigates crimes on aircrafts — he admitted that he “might have” unhooked the woman’s bra, and then unzipped her pants, according to complaint. > > He said he unsuccessfully attempted to put his fingers inside the sleeping woman, however, evidence presented in court showed that he did in fact penetrate her, Schneider said. So, yeah. He’s guilty of digital rape on a sleeping person, (while his wife sat and watched, apparently. I hope they deport her, too.) Does he _deserve_ life in prison? Well, apparently that’s what he’d be sentenced to in India, where, according to **mandala** : “Life sentences in India are rare (as they should be) and reserved for serious cases such as murder, rape, terrorism”. Well, guess what, dude’s a rapist and he committed a serious crime. Not seeing the outrage here, especially since we all know he’ll be sentenced to something much shorter. ---
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/18 "2018-08-20T01:34:12Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I couldn’t get into the OP’s article (WaPo subscription only) so I went and found a different one. > > [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/402564-man-convicted-of-sexually-abusing-sleeping-passenger-on-spirit](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/402564-man-convicted-of-sexually-abusing-sleeping-passenger-on-spirit) > > So, yeah. He’s guilty of digital rape on a sleeping person, (while his wife sat and watched, apparently. I hope they deport her, too.) > > Does he _deserve_ life in prison? Well, apparently that’s what he’d be sentenced to in India, where, according to **mandala** : “Life sentences in India are rare (as they should be) and reserved for serious cases such as murder, rape, terrorism”. > > Well, guess what, dude’s a rapist and he committed a serious crime. > > Not seeing the outrage here, especially since we all know he’ll be sentenced to something much shorter. Oh. I missed the part about penetration. That makes it rape… surprised there is no mention of a mandatory minimum sentence then. It does sound like the wife lied to prosecutors, too. Nice try, but no one’s buying: > [@](#): > > In the trial, Amberg said his client’s understanding of the legal process was based on Indian law. Ramamoorthy believed anything he told police was inadmissible in court, according to a motion Amberg filed to suppress Ramamoorthy’s statements. > > He also believed he would be tortured unless he gave incriminating statements, the motion said. Amberg cited “Visaranai,” a 2015 Indian film about corrupt police using violence to coerce guilty pleas, as evidence of Ramamoorthy’s belief he faced a similar threat in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/19 "2018-08-20T03:28:54Z")
Naturally it’s different if you are a doctor: > [@](#): > > A Houston doctor who was convicted of raping a patient in her hospital bed while she was sedated was sentenced to 10 years probation but no jail time Friday. > > Dr, Shafeeq Sheikh, 46, an internal medical resident who was on call at Ben Taub Hospital that night, was charged with the assault in 2015. The Texas Medical Board revoked his license after the arrest. > **[Texas doctor will not serve jail time for raping patient in her hospital room...](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2018/08/19/texas-doctor-will-not-serve-jail-time-for-raping-patient-in-her-hospital-room-in-2013/)** > > A Houston doctor who was convicted of raping a patient in her hospital bed while she was sedated was sentenced to 10 years probation but no jail... ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872/20 "2018-08-20T03:50:35Z")
> [@mandala](#): > > Oh. I missed the part about penetration. That makes it rape… surprised there is no mention of a mandatory minimum sentence then. > > It does sound like the wife lied to prosecutors, too. > > Nice try, but no one’s buying: “They’ll beat me if I don’t give them evidence they can’t use against me!” Makes perfect sense. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloke-assaults-woman-on-flight-now-faces-life-in-prison-is-this-excessive/819872.md?page=2)