# Bloody Sunday Report FINALLY finished. The British Army murdered innocent civilians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306 "2010-06-15T16:24:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/21 "2010-06-15T21:21:47Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Somebody put on a pot of coffee. Really! The Widgery Report is like 1 page. I’m not certain of that, because the link I found isn’t a PDF of the paper document, but a version transcribed into an HTML page, and there were references to a couple of appendices which aren’t on the page. Still, it’s not much longer than an avererage SDMB post. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/22 "2010-06-15T22:40:26Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > We can all point to things that are unjust. > > Question, do we all start to pursue all our justifiable causes or do we look at the bigger picture? > > We can all of us be losers here if we choose, just by trying to be winners. Nobody is trying to be the winner here. Who killed the people in IRA bombings? The IRA. They generally took ownership of their murders and gave whatever fucked up reason they had. This situation is different. The official version of events has now been corrected. Innocent people who were doing nothing more than marching for their civil rights where murdered and then \*\* labelled\*\* as gunmen/bomb throwers have been show officially to be innocent people. This verdict doesn’t give any help or support to terrorists. Their actions are their own. It vindicates the innocent victims, that is all. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/23 "2010-06-15T22:47:32Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Its 2010. The man on the street just wants to get on with life. We know the people murdered were innocent. Lets leave it at that. Couldn’t agree more. Hell, I’m even supporting England in the World Cup :eek: ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/24 "2010-06-15T23:03:06Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Couldn’t agree more. Hell, I’m even supporting England in the World Cup :eek: Traitor! ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/25 "2010-06-15T23:22:22Z")
I yam what I yam. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/26 "2010-06-17T11:22:14Z")
There’s talk about some of the soldiers at the very least may be looking at perjury charges. [http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/bloody-sunday/bloody-sunday-saville-witnesses-who-told-lies-may-face-perjury-trial-14844918.html](http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/bloody-sunday/bloody-sunday-saville-witnesses-who-told-lies-may-face-perjury-trial-14844918.html) Some of the comments of soldiers referenced in that story are precious > [@](#): > > One soldier said: “Got quite emotional when I saw the news. Sold out again. The whole Army has been insulted. Don’t know why we bothered.” Awww poor you. Your collegues have had their cards marked for killing innocent civilians in cold blood face to face and you’re insulted? Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/27 "2010-06-17T11:52:20Z")
The whole army has been insulted, when it’s not even clear yet whether there will be any prosecutions, and Cameron went out of his way to talk about how this doesn’t reflect on the Army as a whole and what great chaps they generally are etc.? Piss off, anonymous soldier. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/28 "2010-06-17T19:19:00Z")
“Don’t know why we bothered murdering all those unarmed civilians.” ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/29 "2010-06-17T20:39:31Z")
You know the bit that keeps jumping out at me? The forensics. Victim after victim after victim shot in the back, or the back of the head. Soldiers are trained so they don’t panic and massacre unarmed civilians. If you’re insulted by a report saying that your colleagues fucked up by ignoring their training and disgraced themselves by lying about opening fire on a crowd engaged in a lawful protest, you need a serious attitude adjustment. If you’re a soldier and you make a bad call, people die. The correct, honourable thing to do is to admit that. You don’t say “they were armed terrorists and that makes it OK that I shot them in the back” you say “I fucked up and panicked and innocent people died” and you take your punishment like a grown-up. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/30 "2010-06-17T21:06:28Z")
_Right from the start this here’s a rebel song It’s from the heart I wanna tell you ‘bout a wrong Committed by Britain back in the day Fourteen murdered they refused to be slaves To the crown, in Derry Town They wouldn’t bow down so they were shot down A peaceful protest the turn out was large So the soldiers decided to show who was in charge Vexed so they flexed, did what papas can do beat When the smoke had cleared fourteen were laid to rest No riots, no lootin’ to start off the shootin’ People emulated King not Seal or Newton Things forever changed after that afternoon Brothers started doin’ what they had to do On Bloody Sunday_ - Seanchai & The Unity Squad ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/31 "2010-06-17T21:21:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why bother? Justice. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/32 "2010-06-17T21:22:48Z")
The funny thing is that the English (and british people in general) are the world’s biggest softies. They’re loud and crude much fo the time and threaten dire fates for their enemies, but they are generally big bundles of fluff n stuff. Which is why for the life of me I can’t understand why to this day they’re such bastards about Ireland. While today they don’t much go in for oppressing the Irish, they can’t seem to really _get_ why centuries of oppression and murder has left its mark so permanently. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/33 "2010-06-17T21:46:38Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The funny thing is that the English (and british people in general) are the world’s biggest softies. They’re loud and crude much fo the time and threaten dire fates for their enemies, but they are generally big bundles of fluff n stuff. I don’t know if you’re making light of something that is quite a traumatic subject for Irish people, and for many Brits, but if you are, I suggest you don’t. If you’re not, our history suggests otherwise. I guess you could get the impression from the media, or even visiting here. Though we’ve a strong violent streak in our national psyche, as evidenced by the mess our city centres get into every weekend, we are generally peace loving and polite. Our fighting men, however, are hard as fucking nails - for [good](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNcTxhbXjA) or [ill](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)). Don’t fuck with the Army, the Royal Marines, the Paras, and especially not the SAS. To indicate you think otherwise is to insult the people who fought with you in two world wars, Korea, and are currently fighting alongside your armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. > [@smiling bandit](#): > > While today they don’t much go in for oppressing the Irish, they can’t seem to really _get_ why centuries of oppression and murder has left its mark so permanently. I agree with this statement. We’ve been thoroughly propagandised, usually by omission. The people bombed in the British streets usually didn’t know why. _I_ understand why, having lived in Ireland, but most of my compatriots don’t get it. And they roll their eyes when I try to tell them. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/34 "2010-06-17T22:25:17Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > You know the bit that keeps jumping out at me? > The forensics. > Victim after victim after victim shot in the back, or the back of the head. Kevin McElhinney, 17 Was shot from behind as he crawled toward Rossville flats. The bullet entered his right buttock and exited his shoulder. When he was hit fellow marchers ran out from the flats and dragged him inside, but he died soon after. Gerald Donaghey, 17 Was running between Glenfada Park and Abbey Park when he was shot in the abdomen. Mr Rogan and another man then attempted to drive the teenager to the city’s Altnagelvin hospital. However, they were stopped at a military checkpoint and ordered to abandon the vehicle. At this point a soldier drove Gerald to an army first aid post. He was pronounced dead on arrival. A police photograph of his clothes showed a number of nail bombs in his pockets, however those who treated the youth, including the army medical officer, said they found nothing in his pockets. John “Jackie” Duddy, 17 Shot in the chest in the car park of Rossville flats, he was the first to be killed on Bloody Sunday. Bernard “Barney” McGuigan, 41 Was going to the aid of Patrick Doherty, waving a white handkerchief in his hand, when he was shot in the head with a single round. He died instantly. Michael McDaid, 20 Died instantly after being shot in the face at the barricade. The downward trajectory of the bullet entry wound led to claims he was shot by soldiers positioned on top of Derry’s historic stone walls, which overlooked the scene. William Nash, 19 Struck by a single bullet to the chest close to the rubble barricade. With the trajectory again downward, it is thought he may also have been fired on by a soldier on the walls. James Wray, 22 Shot twice in Glenfada Park. Two witnesses to the Widgery Tribunal said the second shot was fired at close range while he lay injured on the ground from the first bullet. Michael Kelly, 17 Shot once in the abdomen close to the rubble barricade. He died in the ambulance on the way to hospital. John Johnston, 59 Was shot twice from soldiers inside a derelict building in William Street. This incident happened away from the scene of the rest of the shootings and took place around 15 minutes earlier. He survived the day but died six months later.His family insist his death was linked to the injuries sustained and claim he is the 14th victim of Bloody Sunday. John Young, 17 Killed instantly with a single shot to the head at the rubble barricade. The bullet hit him in the left eye and travelled downward through his chest, indicating that he may also have been shot from the walls above. William “Willie” McKinney, 27 (not related to Gerard McKinney) Also shot in Glenfada Park. A keen amateur film-maker he had recorded scenes from the march with his hand held cinecamera before the shooting started. The camera was found in his jacket pocket as he lay dying. Gerard McKinney, 35 Was running close behind Gerald Donaghey in Glenfada Park when the teenager was shot. Witnesses said he then raised his hands and shouted “Don’t shoot!” but moments later was hit in the chest. The bullet passed sideways through his body but did not wound either arm, indicating that his hands were indeed raised at the time. Hugh Gilmour, 17 Was hit with a single shot was he ran away from the rubble barricade on Rossville Street. A student nurse attempted to treat his wounds but he died at the scene. Patrick Doherty, 31 Was shot from behind as he attempted to crawl to safety from the forecourt of Rossville flats. He died at the scene after being hit with a single round that entered his body through the right buttock and exited his left chest. A soldier who fired at him initially claimed he had been armed with a pistol. A photograph of Mr Doherty taken moments before he was hit showed no evidence of a firearm. Read more: [http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/bloody-sunday/how-the-bloody-sunday-victims-died-14843444.html#ixzz0r9T6FLWN](http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/bloody-sunday/how-the-bloody-sunday-victims-died-14843444.html#ixzz0r9T6FLWN) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/35 "2010-06-17T22:29:50Z")
With all those sources of gunfire, and all those unarmed civilians, I can’t help but think it was coordinated. Unjustified and unjustifiable, yes, but was it an order? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/36 "2010-06-18T06:04:03Z")
38 years is a fuck of a long time to wait for the British state, though I don’t understand why they’re so bothered about what the British state decides to say at this particular point in time. To recognise and value the report only empowers the British state. It’s a different time and a different world now the USA was in Vietnam for three more years after Bloody Sunday - that army and that culture is about as relevant to today as Kitchener. But it seems to matter to the relatives so I hope it provides comfort to them, though it won’t to the 3,500 others who didn’t get their report. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/37 "2010-06-18T06:19:23Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > …it describes an incident that happened in an all but unrecognizable past. Speak for yourself. “The past isn’t dead. It isn’t even past.” > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > …for the life of me I can’t understand why to this day they’re such bastards about Ireland. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/38 "2010-06-18T07:00:02Z")
**jjimm** , I think you have misunderstood part of **Smiling Bandit’s** post. None of it was meant to be insulting. A “softie” or “softy” is someone with a tender heart. I think that this thread is the most moving and meaningful to me that I’ve read here. I will certainly keep a copy of the OP and other parts. And I will share it with my grandson who has as Irish a name as you are going to find. I gave him one of my Proclaimation t-shirts when he graduated from Catholic grade school. When he ran around showing it to his friends and I saw that he already knew what it was about, you’ve never seen a happier Protestant grandmother. (We Presbyterians are weird like that.) He’s off to college this fall. A copy of this OP will go with him. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/39 "2010-06-18T10:01:30Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > 38 years is a fuck of a long time to wait for the British state, though I don’t understand why they’re so bothered about what the British state decides to say at this particular point in time. To recognise and value the report only empowers the British state. Which is the state they live in. Just because they were on the march does not mean they were nationalist or republican by default. The march was a civil rights march not a independence march. The republicans took full advantage of the situation though. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2010, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306/40 "2010-06-18T10:57:23Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > With all those sources of gunfire, and all those unarmed civilians, I can’t help but think it was coordinated. Unjustified and unjustifiable, yes, but was it an order? Experience with New York Police shootings suggests that once one cop opens fire, they _all_ do. Human nature thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloody-sunday-report-finally-finished-the-british-army-murdered-innocent-civilians/543306.md?page=3)