# Bloomberg and Board of Health's Soda ban struck down again. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716 "2014-06-26T18:07:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/41 "2014-06-28T20:31:24Z")
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**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/42 "2014-06-28T20:41:42Z")
Marley you have used your 2 hours on the internet/ TV / video gaming today, your time is up you must now log off and exercise or face the fines pursuant to Law 11 section 2b Courtesy Of The Nanny State. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10925146/Three-hours-of-television-a-day-can-kill.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10925146/Three-hours-of-television-a-day-can-kill.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/43 "2014-06-28T21:49:51Z")
That’s a “nanny state” hat trick, but it’s disappointing that it took until post #42. > [@Shakes](#): > > If you want to change culture how about you start by teaching personal responsibility instead of imposing these nanny state like restrictions? The city actually does promote healthy eating; for example there are subway ads about how unhealthy sugary drinks are. But I’d look at it this way: who has more money and power to promote their views on food and drinks: the NYC board of health, or Coke and Pepsi and Dr. Pepper? That might answer why education alone isn’t sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![RyJae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@RyJae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyJae)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/44 "2014-06-28T22:03:30Z")
Would have been post two had this been posted in GD, sorry to disappoint. Look I understand some people cannot control themselves, shit I am one of them. Yet I stopped drinking soda, most added sugary items, even quit smoking all without anyone telling me I couldn’t do those things. OTOH I may be in the minority but I would agree with a minor tax maybe 2-3% on soda/cigarettes/alcohol/marijuana (where legalized)/most fast food pretty much anything that isn’t healthy. With the money being 100% put into awareness and prevention the problem is the bloated bureaucracy will find a way to use that money for themselves or other pet projects. > [@](#): > > However, the new study finds that between 1998 and 2010, states collected a combined total of almost $244 billion in tobacco industry settlement payments and cigarette excise taxes, but have invested only about $8 billion in effective state anti-smoking, tobacco control programs. > > The remainder of the money has been used to pay general expenses or to fund programs other than tobacco control, according to research led by John Francis of the National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/05/24/states-use-only-fraction-of-tobacco-revenues-to-fight-smoking-study-finds](http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/05/24/states-use-only-fraction-of-tobacco-revenues-to-fight-smoking-study-finds) And with that I am outta CS in this topic would visit again if it starts again in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/45 "2014-06-28T22:05:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you feel the need for a personal nanny then then make him your spiritual adviser and leave the rest of us alone. It would almost be worth putting up with the recurring presence of Michael Bloomberg on the public stage if he were required to appear in a Hare Krishna outfit. Heck, given the known health benefits of laughter such a mandate would have every bit as good a justification as the Big Gulp ban. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/46 "2014-06-28T22:09:16Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > And, through insurance and other issues, we all pay for other’s bad decisions. For me, this is the price of living in a free society and it’s worth paying. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/47 "2014-07-03T02:11:11Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > For me, this is the price of living in a free society and it’s worth paying. I’m on the fence, leaning on the no-ban side (and definitely not the half-measure Bloomberg tried). But I’ve given up believing we live in a free society - we don’t. We just like to toss that word around when it is convenient to whatever point we are trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/48 "2014-07-03T02:50:10Z")
I see it as a death of a thousand cuts. Give a politician an inch and they’ll take your large soda. I don’t really want the large soda but giving it up means something else down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/49 "2014-07-03T06:49:08Z")
And it’s so easy to get around – sell a soda that’s just an ounce or two under the ban. Or have a buy-one-get one-free/half-off deal so people can buy two smaller sizes. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/50 "2014-07-03T13:09:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s a “nanny state” hat trick, but it’s disappointing that it took until post #42. > > The city actually does promote healthy eating; for example there are subway ads about how unhealthy sugary drinks are. But I’d look at it this way: who has more money and power to promote their views on food and drinks: the NYC board of health, or Coke and Pepsi and Dr. Pepper? That might answer why education alone isn’t sufficient. I’ll probably get pitted for making this comparison but… Forcing your ideologies on to people because dang it, they’re just too stupid to know any better is dystopian. This is the same justification anti abortionists use to fight their cause. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/51 "2014-07-03T14:27:18Z")
Tracing the evolution of the nanny state would be quite an interesting documentary, Might even win a local station an Edward R Murrow award. I’d guess the nanny state mentality started in the 60’s with the early tobacco warnings. It soon escalated to a ban on tobacco tv advertising. The nanny state mentality just grows bigger and bigger with the passing of years. There seems to be no stopping it. Its just a matter of time and soda taxes will be used to artificially drive up cost and reduce consumption. Warning labels will soon follow. Maybe even class action lawsuits. Pretty much the same tactics used against tobacco. The difference of course is all the ripe targets the nanny state can go after. Doughnuts, greasy hamburgers, hot dogs, the list goes on and on. The UK press is already making comparisons between tobacco and sugar. The war on sugar has already begun. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/10314705/Sugar-is-addictive-and-the-most-dangerous-drug-of-the-times.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/10314705/Sugar-is-addictive-and-the-most-dangerous-drug-of-the-times.html) > [@Magiver](#): > > I see it as a death of a thousand cuts. Give a politician an inch and they’ll take your large soda. I don’t really want the large soda but giving it up means something else down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/52 "2014-07-03T15:08:54Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Forcing your ideologies on to people because dang it, they’re just too stupid to know any better is dystopian. Portion size is not an ideology. And no, it’s nothing like a dystopia. Maybe I’m wrong and you’re also against everything from mandatory food inspections to vaccinations to bans on dangerous chemicals and ingredients to marketing laws to speed limits - in which case I applaud your consistency but I think that’s insane - but if you’re not against those things, this is no more dystopian than any of them. It may or may not be effective or sensible and I don’t mean to imply that there’s no debate about that, but it’s neither frightening nor Stalinesque nor dystopian. > [@](#): > > This is the same justification anti abortionists use to fight their cause. No, it isn’t. Their justification is that abortion is immoral and/or murder. The argument here is that the drink sizes are unhealthy and that a smaller size could contribute to reduced rates of obesity and diabetes without significantly inconveniencing people who for choose to drink larger sodas (since they could still get them in two cups or containers). > [@aceplace57](#): > > Tracing the evolution of the nanny state would be quite an interesting documentary It might if the nanny state were a real thing. Since it’s not, try Fox News! > [@](#): > > Its just a matter of time and soda taxes will be used to artificially drive up cost and reduce consumption. Warning labels will soon follow. Maybe even class action lawsuits. Pretty much the same tactics used against tobacco. Yes, and other than [reducing smoking rates by more than half](http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/cig_smoking/), which means a lot less lung cancer, what has that even accomplished? God, how horrible it would be if something similar happened to [obesity](http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html) and [diabetes](http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/). ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/53 "2014-07-03T15:35:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Portion size is not an ideology. And no, it’s nothing like a dystopia. Maybe I’m wrong and you’re also against everything from mandatory food inspections to vaccinations to bans on dangerous chemicals and ingredients to marketing laws to speed limits - in which case I applaud your consistency but I think that’s insane - but if you’re not against those things, this is no more dystopian than any of them. It may or may not be effective or sensible and I don’t mean to imply that there’s no debate about that, but it’s neither frightening nor Stalinesque nor dystopian. You’re making false equivalencies. We’re talking about a product that is already legal to sell for public consumption. I’ll admit that there are some grey areas WRT how much “X” can a company put in their food product but that’s not what we’re talking about here. > [@](#): > > No, it isn’t. Their justification is that abortion is immoral and/or murder. Yes that too is ONE of their many justifications against abortion. They also try to force their beliefs on women because they’re too stupid to know any better. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/54 "2014-07-03T15:45:46Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > You’re making false equivalencies. We’re talking about a product that is already legal to sell for public consumption. I’m not sure which of those five or six things is supposed to be the false equivalence, but legal products are still inspected and regulations for legal products are changed all the time. Products get banned and pulled off the market for various reasons, too. > [@](#): > > I’ll admit that there are some grey areas WRT how much “X” can a company put in their food product but that’s not what we’re talking about here. There are far more gray areas than that. > [@](#): > > Yes that too is ONE of their many justifications against abortion. Yes, those are some of the things they actually say. > [@](#): > > They also try to force their beliefs on women because they’re too stupid to know any better. That’s evidently how some of them feel, but it’s not what they say. And in that case you could say that about banning or regulating anything, so the comparison fails. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/55 "2014-07-03T20:23:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Portion size is not an ideology. It is when someone mandates portion size. > [@Marley23](#): > > but if you’re not against those things, this is no more dystopian than any of them. It may or may not be effective or sensible and I don’t mean to imply that there’s no debate about that, but it’s neither frightening nor Stalinesque nor dystopian. Dystopia refers to something akin to “1984” where the government is ever present in your life. It isn’t something that happens overnight. It happens in degrees. The book described a government that knows your every move and tells you how to live your life. It’s not like we have to imagine a government that reads every email or listens to every phone call. It’s here. It’s not like we have to imagine a government that’s collecting medical data on every person. It’s here. > [@Marley23](#): > > dystopian. It might if the nanny state were a real thing. Since it’s not, try Fox News! Really? You actually threw Fox News into your argument? You think only Republicans object to unnecessary government intervention? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/56 "2014-07-03T20:34:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It is when someone mandates portion size. This is incoherent. > [@](#): > > Dystopia refers to something akin to “1984” where the government is ever present in your life. I know what a dystopia is, but thank you for explaining a term I already understood and had used in context. > [@](#): > > It’s not like we have to imagine a government that reads every email or listens to every phone call. It’s here. It’s not like we have to imagine a government that’s collecting medical data on every person. It’s here. And yet posters in this thread are comparing _a regulation on drink size_ to Stalinism. Even though the email collection arrived before the regulation on cup size, which pretty well rubbishes the whole creeping fascism theory. The mind boggles. > [@](#): > > Really? You actually threw Fox News into your argument? You think only Republicans object to unnecessary government intervention? I think Republicans are much more likely to use terms like “nanny state.” Do you disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/57 "2014-07-03T20:51:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I think Republicans are much more likely to use terms like “nanny state.” Do you disagree? And? Does the term bother you? I’ll ask you again, do you think it’s just Republicans who object to unnecessary government intervention? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/58 "2014-07-03T20:55:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And? Does the term bother you? Yes. It’s asinine and a childish substitute for an actual argument. > [@](#): > > I’ll ask you again, do you think it’s just Republicans who object to unnecessary government intervention? I never said anything that indicated I feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/59 "2014-07-03T20:55:03Z")
Good, people need to make their own decisions, and not be dictated to and nannied by delusional wannabe-despots like Bloomers ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716/60 "2014-07-03T20:59:02Z")
See, **Magiver**? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bloomberg-and-board-of-healths-soda-ban-struck-down-again/691716.md?page=4)