# Blowing Up the Death Stars Would Be Economic Disasters: Canadian Economist Sez **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2016, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123 "2016-12-19T09:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/21 "2016-12-20T01:43:05Z")
How many Imperial Building Inspectors are at the bottom of those shafts? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/22 "2016-12-20T01:59:07Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Another vote for the “building it” is the economic issue. > > Military projects are varied in terms of economic impact. Some create a lot of new, useful technology that spreads into civilian life. Some are basically pyramid building. Done for show and worthless as can be. > > I strongly suspect it’s mostly the latter. > > Most of the apparent technology seems common place in the Star Wars Universe. The big, possible, exception is the giant planet busting ray mechanism itself. Given the widespread use of blaster devices, is this a whole new concept or is it just a scaling up? There does seem to some “violation of the laws of thermodynamics” stuff going on. How do you get all that energy to pass out of the Death Star in a short period of time without causing an immense amount of collateral damage to the ship? > > If there is “something special” about the Death Star tech, what are the civilian uses? Partially blasting small, unoccupied, planets to get the core for mining? Taking out very large asteroids heading towards an occupied planet? Etc. > > All seems like a bit of overkill given other ways of obtaining resources or generally shoving things around. I’m guessing it’s just the same tech scaled up. And yes, it seems like overkill. The “small” blasts from the Death Star in Rogue One would kill every living thing on the planet. What’s the point of turning the planet into an asteroid field? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/23 "2016-12-20T02:16:35Z")
[Targeting beam deployed, sir.](http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/1440.html) ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/24 "2016-12-20T03:35:17Z")
> [@ganthet](#): > > And government jobs too - benefits, workplace safety standards, Ha! I’ve seen the movies. There’s not a railing to be had in the Death Star. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/25 "2016-12-20T03:39:00Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Ha! I’ve seen the movies. There’s not a railing to be had in the Death Star. [In fairness, they _did_ fix that for version 2.0.](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SNcKbJlEr7I/TE32uV6GPvI/AAAAAAAAAA8/hvRLAIaHy0w/s1600/darth_vader_luke.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/26 "2016-12-20T03:45:24Z")
Any evidence that they have standards for the safety of anyone other than the Emperor? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/27 "2016-12-20T03:50:07Z")
Depending on the source, there could be as much as “nearly 50 million systems” in the Empire. That’s a lot of tax revenue, nevermind all the free robotic help. A Death Star doesn’t really seem much more extravagant than a squad of Star Destroyers or something. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/28 "2016-12-20T04:05:40Z")
> [@Telperion](#): > > What about the destruction of Alderaan? You’d think an actual planet would have a more developed economy than a military base. In one book it mentioned that Alderanians were a large portion of technicians and workers, even on the Death Star itself and they were NOT happy with its destruction. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/29 "2016-12-20T05:22:35Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, they did have to build another one. Or at least, a significant fraction of one. Which they appear to have done in, I dunno, six months? So I think they must be underestimating the effect that either robots or cloned construction forces can have on an economy. They probably assembled it from spare parts. As S.R. Haddon in \*Contact \*said: _First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?_ ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/30 "2016-12-21T12:39:41Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Ha! I’ve seen the movies. There’s not a railing to be had in the Death Star. They didn’t even bother to put one by those two workers who stood next to the beam when it was fired. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/31 "2016-12-21T13:11:54Z")
The article writer doesn’t actually really _think_ about the setting (and that’s okay, neither did George Lucas.) It is set in a universe with 1.) strong AI, 2.) antigravity, and 3.) FTL travel. All three technologies are cheap and easily available. In such a setting, you could set up a robot factory to build mining robots, refining robots, manufacturing robots, and assembling robots (including using those robots to make more robot factories.) Drop a robot factory on a suitable unoccupied planet, moon, asteroid, or comet with plentiful raw materials, stand back and wait for the robots to produce your Death Star, or your fleet of hundreds or thousands of Death Stars if you decide to cannibalize entire planets for resources . (The antigravity tech makes it easy to lift the manufactured materials off even a full planetary gravity well, and the FTL tech makes it easy to pick a suitable solar system.) You don’t need many paid employees, just mostly programmers and supervisors, and surely most of the robot designs would already be available “off the shelf.” Small countries, large companies, and especially rich individuals should all be well within the means to produce an arbitrarily large number of Death Stars. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/32 "2016-12-21T20:36:32Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The article writer doesn’t actually really _think_ about the setting (and that’s okay, neither did George Lucas.) It is set in a universe with 1.) strong AI, 2.) antigravity, and 3.) FTL travel. All three technologies are cheap and easily available. In such a setting, you could set up a robot factory to build mining robots, refining robots, manufacturing robots, and assembling robots (including using those robots to make more robot factories.) Drop a robot factory on a suitable unoccupied planet, moon, asteroid, or comet with plentiful raw materials, stand back and wait for the robots to produce your Death Star, or your fleet of hundreds or thousands of Death Stars if you decide to cannibalize entire planets for resources . (The antigravity tech makes it easy to lift the manufactured materials off even a full planetary gravity well, and the FTL tech makes it easy to pick a suitable solar system.) You don’t need many paid employees, just mostly programmers and supervisors, and surely most of the robot designs would already be available “off the shelf.” Small countries, large companies, and especially rich individuals should all be well within the means to produce an arbitrarily large number of Death Stars. Yes, basically. Which would seem to contradict much of the setting - in both the Empire and the Old Republic, we see poverty everywhere, from slaves to worn-out ships. The premise of robot factors should make Star Wars a post-scarcity economy in which the limitation is number of people, not raw resources or production capacity. Since we do not see a post-scarcity economy, we must conclude that both the Empire and the Old Republic before it had a vested interest in creating artificial scarcity. They can build a Death Star as often as they want to without affecting the economy because they’re the only ones limiting the economy in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/33 "2016-12-21T21:27:44Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > Ha! I’ve seen the movies. There’s not a railing to be had in the Death Star. Of course not, people would be _leaning_ on them all day. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/34 "2016-12-21T22:42:31Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Since we do not see a post-scarcity economy, we must conclude that both the Empire and the Old Republic before it had a vested interest in creating artificial scarcity. They can build a Death Star as often as they want to without affecting the economy because they’re the only ones limiting the economy in the first place. They do seem to have invented a large number of robots with form factors that preclude them from doing any actual useful work. R2D2 can barely communicate (with people) and has no arms except for a couple of specialized manipulators. Apparently it’s designed as a mechanic, but can’t actually reach anything higher than about three feet off the ground. C3P0 has a human form factor, but appears to be utterly incompetent at anything in the physical line. And BB 8 has no apparent limbs, so I’m not sure what its purpose is. Moving rapidly, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/35 "2016-12-22T00:16:28Z")
Note–the Empire used slave labor during construction. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/36 "2016-12-22T01:00:39Z")
I think BB-8 has all the same sorts of specialized tools that R2-D2 does. And the Star Wars AIs might actually be _too_ strong to allow for a post-scarcity society. Sure, they’ve got droids, but those droids demand luxuries, and time off, and so on, and are perfectly capable of unionizing and striking if they don’t get them. ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/37 "2016-12-22T14:21:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think BB-8 has all the same sorts of specialized tools that R2-D2 does. > > And the Star Wars AIs might actually be _too_ strong to allow for a post-scarcity society. Sure, they’ve got droids, but those droids demand luxuries, and time off, and so on, and are perfectly capable of unionizing and striking if they don’t get them. Sure, but aren’t droids largely treated as second-class citizens (or non-citizens) in much of the galaxy? There was the racist bartender at the cantina on Tatooine. Granted, that’s a backwater, but throughout the series, many characters seem to treat droids as disposable objects rather than sentient beings with fundamental rights. I suppose that wouldn’t stop a droid strike, but I would think that restraining bolts and memory wipes would make striking difficult to start or maintain. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/38 "2016-12-22T23:07:00Z")
It’s an odd argument. After estimating the cost of the Death Star he uses that number to calculate the size of the Imperial economy. 😕 The justification is the Manhattan Program cost that percentage of US GDP. He could have skipped everything before that since his assumption was really just major WMD programs would cost about the same % of GDP as the Manhattan Project. Nothing needs to be put in dollars. Just assume major WMD programs cost .21% of GDP/GGP. It’s a tough assumption. It doesn’t account for any technological changes that might increase productivity or lower input prices on materials. It assumes that spending every year for the construction that was much longer than the Manhattan Project. He just kind of pulls it out and moves on. It gets worse though. We didn’t have a downturn worse than the Great Depression after WWII. That’s with the WMD program being paired with huge spending on conventional forces that were either designed to be expendable (like ammo) or non-expandable sytems getting expended at big rates anyway (tanks, planes, ships, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/39 "2016-12-22T23:12:47Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > It’s an odd argument. > > After estimating the cost of the Death Star he uses that number to calculate the size of the Imperial economy. 😕 The justification is the Manhattan Program cost that percentage of US GDP. He could have skipped everything before that since his assumption was really just major WMD programs would cost about the same % of GDP as the Manhattan Project. Nothing needs to be put in dollars. Just assume major WMD programs cost .21% of GDP/GGP. He’s arguing that the Death Star cost a similar percentage of the GDP as the Manhattan project, and also arguing that blowing up the Death Star would crater the economy? Er, does he know what we did with the final products from the Manhattan project? 'Cause we blew them up, too, and as you noted, the economy did pretty good immediately after WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123/40 "2016-12-23T18:02:54Z")
An economist who doesn’t understand the sunk-cost fallacy. I am curiously not surprised. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blowing-up-the-death-stars-would-be-economic-disasters-canadian-economist-sez/775123.md?page=3)