# Blue men **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 29, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461 "2005-10-29T14:00:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mikhail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mikhail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikhail)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/1 "2005-10-29T14:00:47Z")
I was just reading the comments to Cecil’s piece on [blue men](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980724.html), and I just wanted to confirm that the Irish (Gaelic) for a “black man” is “fear gorm”, or blue man. Why this is the case, on the other hand, is a real mystery to me. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/2 "2005-10-29T16:14:54Z")
Well, I was in a classroom where the black students and the teacher got to talking about names for color, and they talked about “high yeller” for people who are mostly caucasian but have a little bit of black ancestry (= still considered black in the US, where 1/16 black and 15/16 white makes you “black”); and they talked about black folks who were really dark and/or Africans who had no caucasian ancestry being called “blue-black” because the skin almost looks dark blue (lacking the reddish-brown tones we more often see in black folks in the US). ---
**Author:** ![NillyWilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3da27b/32.png) [@NillyWilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NillyWilly)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/3 "2005-10-30T12:33:43Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > (= still considered black in the US, where 1/16 black and 15/16 white makes you “black”) Cite please? I have lived in the USA all my life and haven’t heard this. I’ve heard similar things about the old South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/4 "2005-10-30T17:29:24Z")
I don’t have a cite for the specific laws, but here is a reference to it. This was not true in all states, I should point out. IIRC, it was true in a few sattes in the old Confederacy, and most Northern states (who didn’t have discrimination codified into law, and therefore perhaps didn’t have to slice it quite so fine). I know that there was a local newspaper story about descendents of people who “passed,” (apparently more common in rural Upstate New York, but there was no actual evidence supplied on that, just the assertion) and one researched his grandfather’s grade school records in Indiana. A teacher had attached a note stating that he would likely “pass,” so care must be taken to classify him as negro. Fortunately, I guess, later teachers never saw it. **Mikhail,** Fear Dubh, literally “black man,” refers to the devil, or someone working for the devil. Fear Gorm does mean “blue man,” but refers to people of African descent, who really aren’t black in color, either. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/5 "2005-10-30T19:05:43Z")
> [@NillyWilly](#): > > Cite please? I have lived in the USA all my life and haven’t heard this. I’ve heard similar things about the old South Africa. See Cecil’s column on the subject: [What percentage of black parentage do you need to be considered black?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_049.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/6 "2005-10-30T20:47:02Z")
> [@NillyWilly](#): > > Cite please? I have lived in the USA all my life and haven’t heard this. I’ve heard similar things about the old South Africa. “One drop o’ nigger blood makes you a nigger in this state.” – _Show Boat_ (Original 1927 version.) ---
**Author:** ![mikhail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mikhail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikhail)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/7 "2005-10-31T14:40:43Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > **Mikhail,** Fear Dubh, literally “black man,” refers to the devil, or someone working for the devil. Fear Gorm does mean “blue man,” but refers to people of African descent, who really aren’t black in color, either. Cheers Freedom, that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/8 "2005-11-02T06:42:50Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Well, I was in a classroom where the black students and the teacher got to talking about names for color, and they talked about “high yeller” for people who are mostly caucasian but have a little bit of black ancestry (= still considered black in the US, where 1/16 black and 15/16 white makes you “black”); Apparently, I’m black. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/9 "2005-11-03T20:00:16Z")
(emphasis added) > [@AHunter3](#): > > **still** considered black **in the US** , where 1/16 black and 15/16 white makes you “black” This statement refers to the present and apparently to some allegedly general or semi-official criterion which I am not aware of. Cecil’s column that **bibliophage** linked to does not state this. I couldn’t find it in a quick reading of **saoirse** ’s link. So I think we still need a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Silver100](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7c8e57/32.png) [@Silver100](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver100)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/10 "2005-11-05T22:05:37Z")
> [@NillyWilly](#): > > Cite please? I have lived in the USA all my life and haven’t heard this. I’ve heard similar things about the old South Africa. Check the US Censis. Any trace of “Black” and you are classified as Black ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/11 "2005-11-05T22:56:23Z")
I didn’t mean “officially”. Just informally, and by black people themselves, not just other folks, and not necessarily intended as insulting (i.e., as often as not a way of acknowledging that “you have to deal with it too, same as other black folks”) Exceptions certainly exist, but if someone, on casual visual exam, appears to have some black ancestry, most folks in the US are going to consider that person black. I usually hear [Tyra Banks](http://www.actressass.com/pictures-1/tyra_banks/tyra_banks_5.jpg) described (if race is mentioned) [as black](http://makeashorterlink.com/?R5D324C1C), although it’s really hard to imagine her having anywhere close to 50% African ancestors. She has a boatload of distinctively caucasian features and isn’t appreciably darker in hue than I am. [Tiger Woods](http://www.tagheuer.com/_images/ambassadors/2005/tw_left.jpg), who considers himself to be of mixed ancestry,IIRC, is often [described](http://makeashorterlink.com/?T1F321C1C) as a black athlete who broke a white-folks-ceiling in the sport of golf. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/12 "2005-11-06T00:26:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Check the US Censis. Any trace of “Black” and you are classified as Black The only criterion used by the US Census, for any race, is self-identification. If you fill in the bubble for “black”, then as far as the Census Bureau is concerned, you’re black. If you fill in the bubble for “white”, then you’re white. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-men/328461/13 "2005-11-11T03:10:21Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Fear Dubh, literally “black man,” refers to the devil, or someone working for the devil. Fear Gorm does mean “blue man,” but refers to people of African descent, who really aren’t black in color, either. Interesting. I used to work with a lady from Khartoum, Sudan. She and her husband are both black. One time I was visiting them and he said, “In Sudan, when someone is my color, we say of him _rajul akhdar_, that mean ‘green man.’” I never heard any explanation for why they say this, but the Irish example sounds like a very close parallel… especially since in Middle Eastern languages, they often say “green” for what we would call blue, for example in Arabic and Persian poetry the sky is called “green” instead of blue. I don’t know why. The boundaries of color areas are a little different for each language, I guess.