# Blue states propose measures to keep Trump off of 2020 ballots (unless he releases tax returns) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485 "2019-05-04T23:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/202 "2019-05-13T18:44:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’d be all for such requirements, and I don’t see any conflict between supporting such requirements and supporting this one. Yes, but why is it that we find ourselves with a dog that is not barking? Because the laws proposed are to help the cause of getting Trump out of office, only dressed up in either lesser or slightly more amounts of garb. The cause here isn’t improving government ethics; the cause here is that Trump is unethical. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/203 "2019-05-13T18:57:49Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Yes, but why is it that we find ourselves with a dog that is not barking? > > Because the laws proposed are to help the cause of getting Trump out of office, only dressed up in either lesser or slightly more amounts of garb. The cause here isn’t improving government ethics; the cause here is that Trump is unethical. Fine, this doesn’t really dispute anything I’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/204 "2019-05-13T19:13:41Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The cause here isn’t improving government ethics; the cause here is that Trump is unethical. Only Trump, among all presidents and even candidates in the last 40 years, has provided probable cause of financial crimes. Laws aren’t needed until they’re needed, right? Yes, the purpose \*is \*to improve government ethics. It does not help to claim it’s personality-driven, implying it’s just like the way his Democrat-hate is personality-driven, especially not when you also claim the probable cause exists. You’re straining hard to be able to claim butbothsidesdoit, unfortunately the facts just don’t support that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/205 "2019-05-13T19:24:44Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s like passing a law that criminalizes stealing with prison as the consequence, and then claiming it’s not about sending anyone to prison. Of course it is. Are you really telling us that laws against stealing are \*not \*about punishing and deterring stealing? They’re essentially just about manufacturing excuses to imprison people? If that’s truly what you mean, then wow. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/206 "2019-05-13T20:04:15Z")
The new rules appear to only discriminate against those who do not wish to divulge their tax information to American voters and I don’t believe they are a protected class. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/207 "2019-05-13T20:11:21Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > The new rules appear to only discriminate against those who do not wish to divulge their tax information to American voters and I don’t believe they are a protected class. “protected class” and “a class of candidates” are two separate things. In the cite provided by Lord Feldon, the “class of candidates” are candidates who refused to pledge to support term limits. That’s not a “protected class” in the non-discrimination normal usage of that phrase, but it was still an unconstitutional limit a state placed on federal candidates’ (of a certain class) ballot access. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/208 "2019-05-13T20:21:00Z")
Felons are, in fact, prohibited from holding public office. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/209 "2019-05-13T20:28:40Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Because the laws proposed are to help the cause of getting Trump out of office, only dressed up in either lesser or slightly more amounts of garb. This is false. Keeping Trump off the ballot in California does nothing one way or the other to get Trump out of office. The purpose of the law is to provide Trump an incentive to release his tax returns ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/210 "2019-05-13T20:38:26Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > This is false. > > Keeping Trump off the ballot in California does nothing one way or the other to get Trump out of office. > > The purpose of the law is to provide Trump an incentive to release his tax returns I just think it’s a good idea all around. Start with presidential candidates, see how that goes and then work down to Senators, Representatives, Governors and such. There’s way too much funny business going on, and Tax Return transparency might help keep crooks away. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/211 "2019-05-13T20:43:19Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I just think it’s a good idea all around. Start with presidential candidates, see how that goes and then work down to Senators, Representatives, Governors and such. > > There’s way too much funny business going on, and Tax Return transparency might help keep crooks away. Would you still feel it was a good idea if it was not implemented until 2024 to avoid the appearance of targeting a particular candidate? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/212 "2019-05-13T20:46:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Would you still feel it was a good idea if it was not implemented until 2024 to avoid the appearance of targeting a particular candidate? Sure. It would have been a good idea decades ago, and it will still be a good idea decades from now. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/213 "2019-05-13T21:35:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Felons are, in fact, prohibited from holding public office. Certainly not the position taken in an analysis of the issue by the [Congressional Research Service](http://www.loc.gov/crsinfo/). Per the Congressional Research Service report for Congress entitled **[Congressional Candidacy, Incarceration, and the Constitution’s Inhabitancy Qualification](https://web.archive.org/web/20080326231623/http://lugar.senate.gov/services/pdf_crs/Congressional_Candidacy_Incarceration_and_the_Constitutions_Inhabitancy_Qualification.pdf)** > [@](#): > > The issue of whether one is permitted to run for and hold office in the House of Representatives either after a felony conviction, and/or while incarcerated in prison, specifically involves a question of the qualifications, or disqualifications, to be a Representative in Congress. There are three, and only three “positive” qualifications for Representative in Congress set out in the United States Constitution: (1) age (25 years); (2) citizenship (7 years); and (3) inhabitancy (one must be an “inhabitant” of the State from which chosen “when elected”). > > It is now well-settled that these three qualifications for office in the Constitution are the \*exclusive \*qualifications for Congress (and are not merely “minimum” qualifications), and that they are fixed and may not be supplemented by Congress nor by any State unilaterally. Specifically, there is no qualification in the Constitution that one \*not \*be a convicted felon (nor a “disqualification” for offenses other than in the 14th Amendment for certain treasonous conduct by those who have taken an oath of office). Similarly, there is no qualification in the Constitution that a person, when elected to Congress, \*not \*be in prison. Furthermore, no State could permissibly implement such additional qualifications for \*federal \*office through election laws or ballot procedures. The Framers of the Constitution intentionally implemented a representative scheme whereby significant discretion is given and deference provided to the judgment and choice of the people as to whom they wish to have represent them in Congress. In this respect, the adage of the French political philosopher Joseph de Maistre might apply: “Every nation has the government it deserves.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/214 "2019-07-30T21:37:06Z")
Well, looks like California is diving head first into this idea to keep Trump off the ballot. > **[California Gov. Newsom signs law requiring presidential candidates to release...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/california-gov-signs-law-requiring-presidential-candidates-release-tax-returns-n1036286)** > > The law is seen as a direct challenge to President Donald Trump's refusal to make his public. I suspect this will age about as well as Harry Reid’s decision to go nuclear in the Senate ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/215 "2019-07-30T21:58:56Z")
I think the CA thing is a bad idea if one presumes that we live in a reasonably well-functioning democratic (small d) system. But if one is one of the opinion that this is generally bullshit, and we’re in a political no-holds-barred knife fight, then this makes sense. I used to believe the former pretty solidly; I’m no longer nearly as confident. We’ll see. Very possibly unconstitutional, in my unprofessional opinion, but I don’t think that really matters much any more – what matters is which judges see it. More and more I think we’re in a system that rewards whoever can successfully bypass and maneuver around the law, rather than whether what they do is actually in accordance with the law. ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/216 "2019-07-30T22:18:53Z")
The California law only requires tax returns to be on the _primary_ ballot, not the general election ballot. That _might_ be enough to avoid constitutional issues, since primaries are an invention of political parties and aren’t mentioned in the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/217 "2019-07-30T22:22:58Z")
All I can say is if Kamala Harris wins the nomination, I hope she has her original birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/218 "2019-07-30T22:50:36Z")
I think I’ll run in the Republican primary here in California. If I win, I can go to the convention and make fart sounds on a bull horn whenever Trump speaks. Then I’ll offer him my delegates if he agrees to sit in the corner and behave until the convention is over. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/219 "2019-07-31T11:20:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the CA thing is a bad idea if one presumes that we live in a reasonably well-functioning democratic (small d) system. But if one is one of the opinion that this is generally bullshit, and we’re in a political no-holds-barred knife fight, then this makes sense. > > I used to believe the former pretty solidly; I’m no longer nearly as confident. We’ll see. Very possibly unconstitutional, in my unprofessional opinion, but I don’t think that really matters much any more – what matters is which judges see it. More and more I think we’re in a system that rewards whoever can successfully bypass and maneuver around the law, rather than whether what they do is actually in accordance with the law. I agree that it’s a bad idea, but for different reasons. It doesn’t matter I’m this particular case whether a judge finds the law unconstitutional. An election where Trump was otherwise going to win California without this law would probably be a beating the likes of which we haven’t seen since Reagan vs. Mondale in 1984. What really matters is how voters, legislatures, and governors in swing states see this law. This basically provides a reason to start a ballot access arms race. Next up might be a law in Wisconsin or Arizona or Georgia that in order to be on the ballot you have to be pro life. ETA. In case it isn’t clear, I’m imagining a law that applied to candidates for all races, not just the POTUS election. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/220 "2019-07-31T11:36:43Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I agree that it’s a bad idea, but for different reasons. It doesn’t matter I’m this particular case whether a judge finds the law unconstitutional. An election where Trump was otherwise going to win California without this law would probably be a beating the likes of which we haven’t seen since Reagan vs. Mondale in 1984. > > What really matters is how voters, legislatures, and governors in swing states see this law. This basically provides a reason to start a ballot access arms race. Next up might be a law in Wisconsin or Arizona or Georgia that in order to be on the ballot you have to be pro life. > > ETA. In case it isn’t clear, I’m imagining a law that applied to candidates for all races, not just the POTUS election. This is very possible. But we might as well test this in court to see if this stuff is going to be deemed as allowable. If so, at least we’ll understand how broken our system truly is, and it will be more widely apparent to all. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/221 "2019-07-31T11:38:24Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I agree that it’s a bad idea, but for different reasons. It doesn’t matter I’m this particular case whether a judge finds the law unconstitutional. An election where Trump was otherwise going to win California without this law would probably be a beating the likes of which we haven’t seen since Reagan vs. Mondale in 1984. > > What really matters is how voters, legislatures, and governors in swing states see this law. This basically provides a reason to start a ballot access arms race. Next up might be a law in Wisconsin or Arizona or Georgia that in order to be on the ballot you have to be pro life. > > ETA. In case it isn’t clear, I’m imagining a law that applied to candidates for all races, not just the POTUS election. More likely, I’m thinking of things like poll taxes or literacy tests in the Old South or requirements that statewide office holders have to win a majority of legislative districts if they don’t get 50% (I believe the Mississippi Constitution of 1890 enacted this law, and it’s still on the books). Remember that the Supreme Court has basically told Blacks in particular that they’re on their own now when it comes to voting rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=12)