# Blue states propose measures to keep Trump off of 2020 ballots (unless he releases tax returns) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485 "2019-05-04T23:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/222 "2019-07-31T14:01:24Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I think I’ll run in the Republican primary here in California. If I win, I can go to the convention and make fart sounds on a bull horn whenever Trump speaks. Then I’ll offer him my delegates if he agrees to sit in the corner and behave until the convention is over. First of all, note that California is not allowed to have a winner-take-all primary this year, as it is being held before March 15. Second, what makes you think the party won’t pull a stunt similar to 2012, where only the votes for one candidate (Mitt Romney, back then) will be “confirmed” during the roll call? “California, 172 votes” (three for each of the 53 Congressional districts, plus ten statewide, plus three superdelegates) “California casts 100 votes for Guizot, and 72 for President Donald Trump” “California, 72 votes for Donald Trump. Connecticut…” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/223 "2019-07-31T14:16:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the CA thing is a bad idea if one presumes that we live in a reasonably well-functioning democratic (small d) system. But if one is one of the opinion that this is generally bullshit, and we’re in a political no-holds-barred knife fight, then this makes sense. > > I used to believe the former pretty solidly; I’m no longer nearly as confident. We’ll see. Very possibly unconstitutional, in my unprofessional opinion, but I don’t think that really matters much any more – what matters is which judges see it. More and more I think we’re in a system that rewards whoever can successfully bypass and maneuver around the law, rather than whether what they do is actually in accordance with the law. This is essentially a ends-justifies-the-means mentality. With this sort of logic, anyone can justify almost anything. It does absolutely nothing to take the nation back on a better path. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/224 "2019-07-31T14:18:21Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This is essentially a ends-justifies-the-means mentality. With this sort of logic, anyone can justify almost anything. It does absolutely nothing to take the nation back on a better path. This is how things are in a broken political system. I’m not certain we’re there, but I’m worried that we might be heading in that direction, if we’re not there already. In a broken system, there are no rules except what people can get away with. I’m not going to put my head in the sand and pretend our system is just fine the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/225 "2019-07-31T22:30:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The “precise purpose” is to force Trump (and future candidates) to release their returns, not to keep anyone off the ballot. How about a requirement that a candidate be a Republican, or pledge to support a Constitutional Amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade? It doesn’t keep anyone off the ballot, all they have to do is comply with the ballot access law. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/226 "2019-07-31T22:38:19Z")
The problem with this sort of always-catching-up-from-one-step-behind approach is that a future Trump-like candidate might have no difficulty whatsoever releasing his tax returns. He might be someone with nothing financially dodgy. But then he’ll have \*his \*unique issues, and then Democrats will propose a new law to address future candidates of \*his \*kind, except that, then, the next new candidate won’t have any problem with _that_. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/227 "2019-07-31T23:01:37Z")
This law was yet another bad idea coming out of California. Hopefully it will be promptly declared unconstitutional. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/228 "2019-07-31T23:03:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How about a requirement that a candidate be a Republican, or pledge to support a Constitutional Amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade? It doesn’t keep anyone off the ballot, all they have to do is comply with the ballot access law. We’ll see. Our system may be sufficiently broken that this could be in our future. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/229 "2019-07-31T23:24:39Z")
Even if it succeeds, it will backfire. Imagine the general election campaign where Trump can go all out and talk about how the entire state of California won’t even allow people to vote for him. When the Dems talk about voter disenfranchisement, they will have denied all of the Republicans in the entire state their ability to vote for their preferred candidate for President. The optics will be incredible. So keep going Dems. Nominate Warren and keep fighting for these laws. New York next! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/230 "2019-07-31T23:27:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Even if it succeeds, it will backfire. Imagine the general election campaign where Trump can go all out and talk about how the entire state of California won’t even allow people to vote for him. When the Dems talk about voter disenfranchisement, they will have denied all of the Republicans in the entire state their ability to vote for their preferred candidate for President. The optics will be incredible. > > So keep going Dems. Nominate Warren and keep fighting for these laws. New York next! Or he could just, you know, provide his tax returns. That seems like a pretty damn easy retort for the Democratic nominee. “Quit whining and provide your damn taxes!” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/231 "2019-07-31T23:31:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Or he could just, you know, provide his tax returns. That seems like a pretty damn easy retort for the Democratic nominee. “Quit whining and provide your damn taxes!” Nothing in the Constitution says he has to. If that is a disqualifier for you then you do not have to vote for him. But you would deny anyone for whom that is not an issue the right to vote for him. That’s horrific. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/232 "2019-07-31T23:35:03Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Nothing in the Constitution says he has to. If that is a disqualifier for you then you do not have to vote for him. But you would deny anyone for whom that is not an issue the right to vote for him. That’s horrific. This is a trivial concern in a broken system. If our system is not broken, perhaps this will be ruled unconstitutional. If it’s broken, then perhaps it’s what will keep Trump from rendering our system irreparable for a generation. In any case, it’s a political knife fight. Whoever can get away with the most wins, it seems to me. I have no interest in hobbling the Democrats’ ability to fight dirty when the other team has been doing so for years. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/233 "2019-08-01T01:10:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Imagine the general election campaign where Trump can go all out and talk about how the entire state of California won’t even allow people to vote for him. I’m still not a fan, but if the law takes effect, it will have already come and gone by the general election campaign. The version that was passed is only about the primary. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/234 "2019-08-01T01:20:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Or he could just, you know, provide his tax returns. That seems like a pretty damn easy retort for the Democratic nominee. “Quit whining and provide your damn taxes!” I agree that candidates shouldn’t have anything to hide, but the fact is that the American voters didn’t punish Trump for not releasing his tax returns. If the voters were not sufficiently outraged at Trump’s not releasing his returns, then that’s on us, and that’s not a problem California’s legislature should spend time trying to correct. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/235 "2019-08-01T01:27:12Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I’m still not a fan, but if the law takes effect, it will have already come and gone by the general election campaign. The version that was passed is only about the primary. If President Trump doesn’t appear on the primary ballot, and that causes him to lose the primary, does that affect whether he appears on the general election ballot? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/236 "2019-08-01T07:44:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If President Trump doesn’t appear on the primary ballot, and that causes him to lose the primary, does that affect whether he appears on the general election ballot? It could, if: A) He was already at risk of losing. B) The RNC inexplicably rolled over and accepted the exclusion of the sitting president from the selection process for the largest(?) tranche of delegates. C) Trump’s California delegates would have secured him the nomination. But otherwise, candidates are on the ballot in states where they lost the primary all the time. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/237 "2019-08-01T13:35:38Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I agree that candidates shouldn’t have anything to hide, but the fact is that the American voters didn’t punish Trump for not releasing his tax returns. If the voters were not sufficiently outraged at Trump’s not releasing his returns, then that’s on us, and that’s not a problem California’s legislature should spend time trying to correct. Trump is everyone’s problem. I have trouble chiding anyone for any non-violent efforts to help get him out of office. If the courts find it’s unconstitutional, oh well. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/238 "2019-08-01T13:49:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If President Trump doesn’t appear on the primary ballot, and that causes him to lose the primary, does that affect whether he appears on the general election ballot? The people on the GE ballot are slates of electors pledged to a certain candidate, not the candidates themselves, even if they may be listed that way for clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/239 "2019-08-01T14:49:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How about a requirement that a candidate be a Republican, or pledge to support a Constitutional Amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade? It doesn’t keep anyone off the ballot, all they have to do is comply with the ballot access law. Do you understand the difference between “Must comply with basic financial disclosure requirements” and “Must hold and advocate specific policy positions”? Because we already require the former for a lot of government positions. This would just be more of the same. > [@UltraVires](#): > > Nothing in the Constitution says he has to. If that is a disqualifier for you then you do not have to vote for him. But you would deny anyone for whom that is not an issue the right to vote for him. That’s horrific. Do you understand the difference between “criteria required to be President” and “criteria required to appear on a state ballot”? Because the Constitution doesn’t say anything about collecting signatures or paying fees or filling out forms either, but candidates are already required to do that now (criteria differing by state). That said - and Trump-specific motivations aside - while I feel that there is value in openness and transparency in candidates’ financial dealings where those dealings could present conflicts of interest with the offices they hold, I would need something a little more specific than “We just want to root around in people’s tax returns just in case”. What’s in the tax returns that isn’t already provided that is relevant here? Make that case and I may be convinced. However, I do think Trump should release his tax returns - not because he’s legally obligated to but because he openly promised to and it’d be nice if the orange fuck would do at least one thing he promised. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/240 "2019-08-01T15:54:50Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Do you understand the difference between “Must comply with basic financial disclosure requirements” and “Must hold and advocate specific policy positions”? Because we already require the former for a lot of government positions. This would just be more of the same. Of course. For most government positions, the hiring authority needs to know if the candidate can be bribed or blackmailed, or will be excessively tempted by access to taxpayer money. Financial disclosures (mostly) answer those concerns. Why would the voters, the hiring authority for presidents, not be entitled to the same information and the same confidence when they make \*their \*hiring decision? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/241 "2019-08-01T16:20:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Of course. For most government positions, the hiring authority needs to know if the candidate can be bribed or blackmailed, or will be excessively tempted by access to taxpayer money. Financial disclosures (mostly) answer those concerns. Why would the voters, the hiring authority for presidents, not be entitled to the same information and the same confidence when they make \*their \*hiring decision? I think you’re overlooking something in this argument – the President makes financial disclosures, but this one hasn’t released tax returns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=13)