# Blue states propose measures to keep Trump off of 2020 ballots (unless he releases tax returns) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485 "2019-05-04T23:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/242 "2019-08-01T16:23:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Of course. For most government positions, the hiring authority needs to know if the candidate can be bribed or blackmailed, or will be excessively tempted by access to taxpayer money. Financial disclosures (mostly) answer those concerns. Why would the voters, the hiring authority for presidents, not be entitled to the same information and the same confidence when they make \*their \*hiring decision? The voters are “the hiring authority” for all sorts of positions. Should they all have to release their tax returns to the public? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/243 "2019-08-01T16:28:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think you’re overlooking something in this argument – the President makes financial disclosures, but this one hasn’t released tax returns. I’m clarifying for the confused **UltraVires** why he _should_ have to. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The voters are “the hiring authority” for all sorts of positions. Only elected ones. For others, the authority is, properly, delegated. Glad to help. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/244 "2019-08-01T16:30:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The voters are “the hiring authority” for all sorts of positions. Should they all have to release their tax returns to the public? Requiring financial disclosures is reasonable for certain positions - particularly high level ones - where significant conflicts of interest could arise. This is not a condition that applies to the vast majority of elected positions. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/245 "2019-08-01T16:39:53Z")
I really wish you guys would read the cases cited earlier, especially the Thornton case, before you keep arguing the same “but what about filing fees!” lines. States can have these administrative requirements so that only serious candidates are listed and the ballot is not 100 pages long. That is the only permissible reason. Yes, it may be very desirable to have a candidate for Congress who will only serve so many terms, or a presidential candidate who releases his tax returns, but the cases are clear that these substantive requirements cannot be added to those listed in the Constitution. The requirements in the Constitution are exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/246 "2019-08-01T16:43:08Z")
Those are requirements to \*hold \*an office, not to get on the ballot for it. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/247 "2019-08-01T17:50:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Those are requirements to \*hold \*an office, not to get on the ballot for it. > > You’re welcome. You failed hard here. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Term_Limits,_Inc._v._Thornton) says: > [@](#): > > Amendment 73 to the Arkansas Constitution denied **ballot access** to any federal Congressional candidate having already served three terms in the U.S. House or two terms in the U.S. Senate. However, such a candidate was not barred from being written-in and winning by that method. (emphasis mine) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/248 "2019-08-01T18:05:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Those are requirements to \*hold \*an office, not to get on the ballot for it. > > You’re welcome. Again, please read the damn cases. Thornton says that denying ballot access is effectively the same thing as so vanishingly few write-in candidates will win. At least be correct if you are going to be snarky. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/249 "2019-08-01T18:38:58Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How about a requirement that a candidate be a Republican, or pledge to support a Constitutional Amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade? It doesn’t keep anyone off the ballot, all they have to do is comply with the ballot access law. For statewide elections (Governor, US Senator, President), I’m fine with that. In your example I don’t think it’s good policy (whereas basic financial disclosure for major elected office holders is good policy), but at least if 51% of the voters prefer candidate A, who is barred from the ballot for (insert stupid reason here), the natural recourse is for those same 51% of voters to get _very_ angry and vote out the same state legislators that put the law into effect. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/250 "2019-08-01T18:50:16Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > For statewide elections (Governor, US Senator, President), I’m fine with that. In your example I don’t think it’s good policy (whereas basic financial disclosure for major elected office holders is good policy), but at least if 51% of the voters prefer candidate A, who is barred from the ballot for (insert stupid reason here), the natural recourse is for those same 51% of voters to get _very_ angry and vote out the same state legislators that put the law into effect. President Trump has already provided “basic financial disclosure”(s). You realize this, right? Here is [2017’s](http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00023864_2017.pdf) and [2018’s](http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00023864_2018.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/251 "2019-08-01T20:02:04Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > For statewide elections (Governor, US Senator, President), I’m fine with that. In your example I don’t think it’s good policy (whereas basic financial disclosure for major elected office holders is good policy), but at least if 51% of the voters prefer candidate A, who is barred from the ballot for (insert stupid reason here), the natural recourse is for those same 51% of voters to get _very_ angry and vote out the same state legislators that put the law into effect. How do you vote people out when the powers that be keep your preferred candidate off of the ballot??!? That’s the whole issue here! ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/252 "2019-08-01T20:07:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How do you vote people out when the powers that be keep your preferred candidate off of the ballot??!? That’s the whole issue here! Same way you vote state legislators out that have horribly gerrymandered the districts so its impossible for the other side to ever have a majority of seats even if they get more votes. Oh, wait… tell you what, you get your side to stop that and we’ll drop this. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/253 "2019-08-01T20:08:40Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Same way you vote state legislators out that have horribly gerrymandered the districts so its impossible for the other side to ever have a majority of seats even if they get more votes. Oh, wait… tell you what, you get your side to stop that and we’ll drop this. Deal? We don’t have to make a deal. The courts are going to get you to drop this (but probably not until after California has spent a foolish amount of taxpayer money in a doomed bid to defend their unconstitutional law). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/254 "2019-08-01T20:15:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We don’t have to make a deal. The courts are going to get you to drop this (but probably not until after California has spent a foolish amount of taxpayer money in a doomed bid to defend their unconstitutional law). You didn’t think that was a serious offer did you? I was just illustrating the selective outrage of your side. You only care about something that effects elections and proper representation when it could negatively affect your party. Just wanted that to be clear. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/255 "2019-08-01T20:41:52Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Well, looks like California is diving head first into this idea to keep Trump off the ballot. > > [California Gov. Newsom signs law requiring presidential candidates to release taxes](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/california-gov-signs-law-requiring-presidential-candidates-release-tax-returns-n1036286) > > I suspect this will age about as well as Harry Reid’s decision to go nuclear in the Senate If there’s one thing we should have learned from McConnell refusing to even consider Merrick Garland, it’s this: If Democrats even \*think \*about the possibility of doing something, the Republicans will proceed to do that thing right up to the limits of the Constitution. I wouldn’t worry about the Republicans taking advantage of this new situation- I guarantee they were already planning to. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/256 "2019-08-01T20:43:40Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > If there’s one thing we should have learned from McConnell refusing to even consider Merrick Garland, it’s this: If Democrats even \*think \*about the possibility of doing something, the Republicans will proceed to do that thing right up to the limits of the Constitution. > > I wouldn’t worry about the Republicans taking advantage of this new situation- I guarantee they were already planning to. Exactly. This is a knife fight, politically speaking, if not worse. You don’t win a knife fight by worrying about the rules. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/257 "2019-08-01T20:46:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > How do you vote people out when the powers that be keep your preferred candidate off of the ballot??!? That’s the whole issue here! That’s why I limited it to statewide elections only (Governor, US Senate, President). There wouldn’t be any ballot access restrictions permitted on your local state legislator, for example. The 51% angry majority could still vote their preferred candidate at that level, and get the “Only candidates with orange skin may be permitted on the ballot” state law revoked. Although on further reflection, this probably wouldn’t work with a sitting governor with veto power, so I’d modify it to only allow ballot access restrictions on US Senate and Presidential elections. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/258 "2019-08-02T02:08:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’m clarifying for the confused **UltraVires** why he _should_ have to. > [@](#): > > Financial disclosures (mostly) answer those concerns. Why would the voters, the hiring authority for presidents, not be entitled to the same information and the same confidence when they make their hiring decision? You’ve lost me. You said voters should have a financial disclosure from Trump before the election. They did. > **[What’s in Donald Trump’s 104-Page Financial Disclosure? (Published 2016)](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/18/us/politics/trump-financial-disclosure.html)** > > A New York Times analysis of Donald J. Trump’s financial disclosure report. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2019, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/259 "2019-08-02T09:46:45Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You didn’t think that was a serious offer did you? I was just illustrating the selective outrage of your side. You only care about something that effects elections and proper representation when it could negatively affect your party. Just wanted that to be clear. Much in the same way that Republicans are perfectly happy for states to waste taxpayer money defending blatantly unconstitutional laws (usually involving forcing Christianity on people or restricting abortions) until the state involved is California. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/260 "2019-09-03T16:24:09Z")
> [@ricksummon](#): > > The California law only requires tax returns to be on the _primary_ ballot, not the general election ballot. That _might_ be enough to avoid constitutional issues, since primaries are an invention of political parties and aren’t mentioned in the Constitution. Wait a second. > [@](#): > > primaries are an invention of political parties How come the state gets to create laws about who political parties get to put on their party ballots for party delegates to the party convention? Shouldn’t that be strictly up to each of the parties? Primaries IMHO should be funded by the parties except around here thay tack on many local issues and offices such as dog catcher and school funding referenda. Those are why the taxpayers fund them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/261 "2019-09-20T07:35:36Z")
[A judge has granted a preliminary injunction](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/california-trump-tax-returns-judge-blocks-law-sb27-2020-primary-election). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=14)