# Blue states propose measures to keep Trump off of 2020 ballots (unless he releases tax returns) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485 "2019-05-04T23:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/81 "2019-05-06T08:16:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How about this: A state publishes a list of recommended best practices for candidates, including (among other points) releasing their tax returns. Anyone can get on the ballot (subject to the same reasonable restrictions as exist now), but the ballot would also contain information about whether the candidates meet the best practices. So you might have > Hillary Clinton (Democrat) [Meets all recommended best practices] > Donald Trump (Republican) [Has not released income tax returns, has not held any prior governmental office] > Gary Johnson (Libertarian) [Meets all recommended best practices] Missouri tried to put “declined to pledge to support term limits” next to congressional candidates on the ballot, and that law was [struck down](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/531/510/) by the US Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/82 "2019-05-06T10:59:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Democrats are their own worst enemy. They keep bringing the crazy when all they have to do is calm down and come up with a solid, center left, **non-scary** candidate with a non-crazy platform. A bit off-topic, but yes, this is the reason why the Dems will lose the election. > [@](#): > > Only the Democrats need to play by the rules. Republicans can do anything they like and it’s always “legitimate”. yes, that’s the whole point…if the Dems want to remain the party of reason, they have to play by the rules, and explain that to the voters. In **non-scary** ways. If they keep using scary extremism, they’ll lose the casual, uncommitted voters in the center-- and lose the election. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/83 "2019-05-06T12:33:10Z")
Just to continue this hijack that **Sam** introduced and others have responded to, Hillary Clinton was a solid, center-left, non-scary candidate with a non-scary platform. Al Gore was a solid, center-left, non-scary candidate with a non-scary platform. They lost to what history will probably agree was a bottom-ten president and the worst president, not in that order of course. Why can’t the Democrats do better! \ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/84 "2019-05-06T12:34:53Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > yes, that’s the whole point…if the Dems want to remain the party of reason, they have to play by the rules, and explain that to the voters. In **non-scary** ways. > > If they keep using scary extremism, they’ll lose the casual, uncommitted voters in the center-- and lose the election. And if they do what you say is best, they’ll lose the very angry, very progressive voters, many of whom stayed home or voted other than Clinton in 2016. Or neither of us really know what’s going to happen, which is more likely. I think the Democrats should use the kitchen sink approach – “reason”, logic, decency, etc., and also every possible trick within the letter of the law that they can get away with. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/85 "2019-05-06T13:24:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And if they do what you say is best, they’ll lose the very angry, very progressive voters, many of whom stayed home or voted other than Clinton in 2016. … Did they? I think there were angry voters they lost but they weren’t angry progressives. Maybe angry progressives didn’t turn out lots but if so they never have any better. Young white progressives have crappy turnout as a general rule. The missing voters (relative to 2012) were more Black voters. No Jill Stein voters would not have all otherwise voted HRC. The Sanders supporters who voted for Trump were angry but progressives? No. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/86 "2019-05-06T13:35:06Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Did they? > > I think there were angry voters they lost but they weren’t angry progressives. Maybe angry progressives didn’t turn out lots but if so they never have any better. Young white progressives have crappy turnout as a general rule. The missing voters (relative to 2012) were more Black voters. > > No Jill Stein voters would not have all otherwise voted HRC. The Sanders supporters who voted for Trump were angry but progressives? No. I don’t know, which is my point. We’ll see what happens – guessing who’s going to turnout under various circumstances is pretty much just guessing, as a rule. I’m in favor of the kitchen sink approach; others want to “play by the rules”. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/87 "2019-05-06T15:49:16Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > The states that could pull this off are probably not states that Trump would carry anyway, I would imagine, so it might not make any difference. Haven’t read the entire thread, but while this is absolutely true, it would allow the Democrats to provide 100% of their funding to contested state battles. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/88 "2019-05-06T17:12:16Z")
This is a bad idea. What we learned from the Birthers is that it’s up to the votes to decide whether non-constitutional qualifications are significant. If Trump doesn’t want to release his tax returns, people don’t have to vote for him. If they want to regardless, they’re stupid but it’s their right. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/89 "2019-05-06T17:44:55Z")
Can we just call this proposal what it is? A radical solution to a minor annoyance that is really meant to get people fired up to go vote next November. It’s the Democratic counterpart to the Republican obsession about who is going to eat a particular wedding cake made by a fundamentalist baker. The issue of whose names are going to be represented by half a cent of icing is a non-problem in our society, but it is blown up out of proportion to make people angry at the other side. Nobody votes based on a candidate’s tax returns. Trump is one of the least ethical human beings I can think of (short of those who do physical harm to others, putting children in cages notwithstanding) but in the end if there’s a voter who would actually vote for Trump except for line 32(a) of Trump’s probably fraudulent 1040, that voter is a fucking idiot who should not be coddled. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/90 "2019-05-06T19:18:50Z")
Why bother gerrymandering when you can just keep candidates off the ballot all together! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/91 "2019-05-06T19:22:20Z")
I can see a rational voter refusing to vote for a candidate _because (s)he didn’t disclose tax returns_. In fact, I likely would in light of the longstanding norm for candidates to disclose their returns. ETA: You can’t gerrymander a presidential election. But the sentiment is valid. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/92 "2019-05-06T19:36:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I can see a rational voter refusing to vote for a candidate _because (s)he didn’t disclose tax returns_. I can’t. Think of all the substantive issues in the world, and all the substantive differences between candidates; and if a voter places “disclosure of tax return” as their number one, sine qua non issue, they are nuts. Let’s just be clear about this: pardoning the Thanksgiving turkey has more basis as a longstanding presidential norm than does releasing tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/93 "2019-05-06T19:42:08Z")
It’s not the lack of releasing the tax returns in itself. It’s his reasons for not releasing them, about which we can only speculate, but none of the possibilities are very good for him, and some are extremely bad. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/94 "2019-05-06T19:43:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I can see a rational voter refusing to vote for a candidate _because (s)he didn’t disclose tax returns_. In fact, I likely would in light of the longstanding norm for candidates to disclose their returns. > > ETA: You can’t gerrymander a presidential election. But the sentiment is valid. First, why would it be limited to presidential candidates? The principle could apply to anyone disfavored - manufacture a reason to remove them from the ballot. All you need is a majority in both houses and the governorship. As for the presidential election, any state with that criteria - both houses and the governorship - could then have a permanent win condition - no opposing party members would ever be elected, and that states’ electoral votes would only ever go for that party. I don’t know if I’m making a good point, but the idea seems colossally bad. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/95 "2019-05-06T19:49:06Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > First, why would it be limited to presidential candidates? The principle could apply to anyone disfavored - manufacture a reason to remove them from the ballot. All you need is a majority in both houses and the governorship. As for the presidential election, any state with that criteria - both houses and the governorship - could then have a permanent win condition - no opposing party members would ever be elected, and that states’ electoral votes would only ever go for that party. > > I don’t know if I’m making a good point, but the idea seems colossally bad. All the more reason for a new Voting Rights Act, or even better, a constitutional amendment that fixes this and related issues (voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/96 "2019-05-06T19:57:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > All the more reason for a new Voting Rights Act, or even better, a constitutional amendment that fixes this and related issues (voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc.). I don’t know how to reconcile this with your previous statement: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I agree, and I don’t see how the two are incompatible. Fight with every tool available in the process realm, just as the Republicans are doing, and focus on the “here and now” on issues to win elections. What I wrote in post #94 is a tool available in the process realm. I’d be opposed because it’s a terrible idea and bad for democracy, but based on what you’ve written it appears you would not be opposed. Do I have that right? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/97 "2019-05-06T20:00:16Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > … I don’t know if I’m making a good point, but the idea seems colossally bad. Agreed. It would push people towards the pitchforks and torches remedy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/98 "2019-05-06T20:07:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s not the lack of releasing the tax returns in itself. It’s his reasons for not releasing them, about which we can only speculate, but none of the possibilities are very good for him, and some are extremely bad. If it isn’t about the tax returns, as you state, then make it about the issue that IS the issue. And your issue is – correct me if I’m wrong – not that he hasn’t released his tax returns, but you don’t like his reasons for not releasing his tax returns? That’s it? This is the lie out of the 10,000 he’s told so far that disqualifies him from people voting for him? God, this reasoning sounds like a long-past ex-girlfriend: “It’s not that you did X… it’s your reasons for doing X!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/99 "2019-05-06T20:07:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I can’t. Think of all the substantive issues in the world, and all the substantive differences between candidates; and if a voter places “disclosure of tax return” as their number one, sine qua non issue, they are nuts. > > Let’s just be clear about this: pardoning the Thanksgiving turkey has more basis as a longstanding presidential norm than does releasing tax returns. That’s not the point. I don’t wonder about what a POTUS who refuses to pardon the turkey has to hide. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Agreed. It would push people towards the pitchforks and torches remedy. Considering that GOP governors and secretaries of state are able to remove large groups of black people from the voters rolls at the stroke of a pen, I think it’s clear that the pitchforks are not going to be taken up. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/100 "2019-05-06T20:08:57Z")
Currently, the swing states of Ohio, Iowa and Florida are all red at the executive and legislative level. If the GOP banned a Democrat from appearing on the presidential ballot there, it would be highly consequential. Trump could lose Michigan and Pennsylvania and still prevail in 2020. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485.md?page=6)