# Blue states propose measures to keep Trump off of 2020 ballots (unless he releases tax returns) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485 "2019-05-04T23:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/142 "2019-05-09T13:23:56Z")
> [@zardoz333](#): > > Sounds like you are upset that your tin god Hillary didn’t get elected Well, that’s part of it, but the really nauseating thing is the guy who squeaked by past her. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/143 "2019-05-09T13:35:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No deal. This got brought up in another thread, and here was my response: You also said that you will change your view on what is constitutional as you see fit, so your distinctions don’t really add up to anything other than “I’ll make whatever argument I find convenient at that moment.” (Not your words, my summary.) Is there any reason to believe that you will not simply switch your interpretation of the Constitution based on what you feel is most beneficial to your pre-formed opinion on any particular subject? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/144 "2019-05-09T13:37:17Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > states don’t require a candidate to be an NBC to be on the ballot What makes you think so? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/145 "2019-05-09T13:48:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You also said that you will change your view on what is constitutional as you see fit, so your distinctions don’t really add up to anything other than “I’ll make whatever argument I find convenient at that moment.” (Not your words, my summary.) Your summary is false. > [@](#): > > Is there any reason to believe that you will not simply switch your interpretation of the Constitution based on what you feel is most beneficial to your pre-formed opinion on any particular subject? Is there a reason to believe that you won’t do something you have been falsely accused of doing? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/146 "2019-05-09T13:55:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So do it the right way: get a Constitutional amendment ratified. Just so we have a template to guide us in drafting the amendment language, please point us to the Constitutional amendments which authorize states to: 1. Refuse to list candidates on the ballot if they fail to present X number of signatures 2. Refuse to list candidates on the ballot if they fail to file paperwork by Y date 3. Refuse to list candidates on the ballot if they had previously tried and failed to win a political party’s nomination in that election ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/147 "2019-05-09T14:56:20Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > Might be a moot point. Some of his [tax info leaked](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/05/07/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage). TLDR is that he lost a lot of money. I guess, he can brag that he lost more money than any other individual taxpayer? More to the point, he lost a lot of _other people’s_ money. He took a real estate empire with nearly a half billion that his father built and bankrupted it by with three times that amount in debt as a result of over-borrowing with interest rates that were higher than the returns on his property’s value. He blew not only through his family fortune; he screwed his investors and left banks with so much bad debt owed to them that they had to find a way to cut deals with him to get at least some of that money back. They realized that his brand had just enough value to do that, and Donald Trump then came back with his reality TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/148 "2019-05-09T17:19:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What makes you think so? Because no state requires a candidate to prove they meet the requirements of President to be on the ballot. My google-fu is failing me but I know there are examples of ineligible candidates on states’ ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/149 "2019-05-09T23:07:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No deal. This got brought up in another thread, and here was my response: A “right” to abortion was found in the Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments. That gives just as much reasoning against the repeated states’ attempts to ban abortion via shitty laws that would even [force rape victims to give birth.](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/alabama-senate-abortion-law-rape-incest-supreme-court-latest-a8906741.html?utm_source=reddit.com) But hey, pick and choose which parts of the Constitution you like. Just like a “real American”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/150 "2019-05-10T17:05:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So states don’t require a candidate to be an NBC to be on the ballot even though it’s a requirement to be President but they’ll require them (possibly in violation of Federal Law) to show their tax return. That makes sense. State law nearly always requires the candidate to swear an oath or affirmation confirming that the candidate meets the requirements for office. [Example](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0000-0099/0099/Sections/0099.021.html). ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/151 "2019-05-10T17:32:51Z")
Would Donald somehow be prevented or physically unable to comply with these requirements? Do they discriminate against him in any way? Can his pudgy fingers not operate a fax machine? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/152 "2019-05-10T17:34:53Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Would Donald somehow be prevented or physically unable to comply with these requirements? Do they discriminate against him in any way? Can his pudgy fingers not operate a fax machine? Exactly. That’s why it’s bullshit to claim that this is an attempt to keep him off the ballot. No it’s not – this is no more onerous (and probably less so) than a requirement that one fill out an application, pay the $50 application fee, and get 1000 signatures. It’s a mundane thing that anyone can do rather easily. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/153 "2019-05-10T17:45:46Z")
That’s not the point. The point is that a state probably cannot constitutionally add ballot qualifications, and that it’s bad policy to do so even if it could. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/154 "2019-05-10T17:54:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s not the point. The point is that a state probably cannot constitutionally add ballot qualifications, and that it’s bad policy to do so even if it could. I guess we’ll see, but I don’t think it’s the federal government that decides things like applications forms and fees, signature requirements, and the like. If states can say “you must have 1000 signatures”, why can’t a state say “you must provide your tax returns”? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/155 "2019-05-10T18:02:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I guess we’ll see, but I don’t think it’s the federal government that decides things like applications forms and fees, signature requirements, and the like. If states can say “you must have 1000 signatures”, why can’t a state say “you must provide your tax returns”? You might consider reading the relevant SCOTUS decisions on this matter. You’d probably find the answers there. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/156 "2019-05-10T18:05:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You might consider reading the relevant SCOTUS decisions on this matter. You’d probably find the answers there. Thanks for all those links! What a helpful post! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/157 "2019-05-10T18:36:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Thanks for all those links! What a helpful post! If I had the faintest of hopes that he’d actually read them, I would have provided some. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/158 "2019-05-10T18:48:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If I had the faintest of hopes that he’d actually read them, I would have provided some. How about showing them to the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/159 "2019-05-10T18:57:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You might consider reading the relevant SCOTUS decisions on this matter. You’d probably find the answers there. Very little to go on\*\* regarding the relevant law\*\* being litigated in the Supreme Court, chances are that even the hope that the supreme court hacks will side with the president is in doubt. > **[Here's how the battle for Trump's tax returns could play out](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/battle-trumps-tax-returns-play/story?id=62211401)** > > It could go all the way to the Supreme Court. > [@](#): > > Steve Rosenthal, a senior fellow in the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and a tax lawyer with 25 years’ experience, said the law is stacked against the president and in favor of House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Rep. Richard Neal, D-Mass. > > ``` > For Mnuchin to say just 'No,' I'm sure he'd say he's there to protect the privacy of every American, but that's B.S. > > ``` > > According to Section 6103(f) of the federal tax code, an obscure, nearly hundred-year-old provision Neal cited in making his request, the Treasury Secretary “shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified in such request.” > > Rosenthal said the law couldn’t be clearer. > > “As a lawyer, this is a pretty easy question to litigate,” he said. “Chairman Neal has the authority to obtain this information through this provision, which is unambiguous in its use of the word ‘shall.’” > > The key question, Rosenthal added, is whether Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin has any legal basis to refuse Neal’s request. > > “I think the administration’s strategy,” Rosenthal continued, “is to run out the clock and try to get past the election, but the question is, is there any legitimate legal basis to resist? And how long will the legal process take?” > > “For Mnuchin to say just ‘No,’ I’m sure he’d say he’s there to protect the privacy of every American, but that’s B.S.,” said Rosenthal. “Congress is there to have oversight of the executive branch, and President Trump is the most important player in the executive branch.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/160 "2019-05-10T19:36:02Z")
I like how another poster’s laziness is somehow my fault. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/blue-states-propose-measures-to-keep-trump-off-of-2020-ballots-unless-he-releases-tax-returns/833485/161 "2019-05-10T20:30:10Z")
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