# Bob Dylan and Joan Baez the ultimate 1960's romance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239 "2014-12-14T21:59:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/1 "2014-12-14T21:59:27Z")
Bob Dylan and Joan Baez will always be linked together in my memories. I always thought their creativity and music were at its height when they were together. This contributor put together a wonder montage of them together. Set to Diamonds and Rust. What a romance and what a special time in history. It wasn’t meant to last, but oh what a time they shared together. For me Diamonds and Rust is the sixties and the story of Bob Dylan and Joan Baez. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/2 "2014-12-15T07:02:41Z")
There’s always Mitch & Mickey. [Here](http://youtu.be/QwLZfPPM7GQ) they are at a reunion many years later. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/3 "2014-12-15T12:21:55Z")
I dunno. Though it wasn’t my time and place, as a Dylan fan I’ve done a lot of reading about the matter and always gathered that for Dylan, Baez was not much more than a stepping stone for his career. He toured with her when he was primary, if at all, known as a songwriter and used her popularity to get a foothold as performer. When that goal was achieved, he didn’t have much use for her any more. Though she was still present on his British tour of 1965, she was largely ignored by then. Call me a cynic, but I don’t see many romantic aspects in their relationship, more manipulation and utilization. As for creativity, Baez probably taught Dylan some songs he adapted (or stole) as was always his wont, and Baez became one of the many performers of Dylan songs, but I don’t think that many great songs were inspired by this relationship. Suze Rotolo was IMHO the more important Dylan muse of his early career. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/4 "2014-12-15T12:24:36Z")
What’s wrong with Sir Richard Burton (the other Sir Richard Burton, the one who didn’t explore India, Arabia, Africa, and Salt Lake City) and Elizabeth Taylor? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/5 "2014-12-15T13:41:55Z")
David Hajdu wrote [Positively 4th Street: The Lives and Times of Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Mimi Baez Fariña, and Richard Fariña](http://www.amazon.com/Positively-4th-Street-Fari%C3%B1a-Richard/dp/0312680694/ref=tmm_pap_title_0). Three members of that talented group had more ambition than they were supposed to–as arty bohemian counter-culture types. (Mimi was awfully young.) Fariña had divorced folk star Carol Hester for Mimi & could have been considering an upgrade to the more famous sister. But he hopped a ride on a motorcycle & ended his story early. That book is a fascinating look at one slice of the Village/Cambridge/California folk scene. And there was more than one scene going on in the 60’s. I agree that Liz & Dick were giant, too. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/6 "2014-12-15T13:46:30Z")
I’ve never thought of Baez as being terribly significant, either in her own right or in whatever influence she had on Dylan. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/7 "2014-12-15T14:20:02Z")
Baez was much more established as a musician. She started in the folk coffee house scene in the late 1950’s. She’s Dylan’s age (b. 1941), but she started really young. 16 or 17? Its been awhile since I read her biography. I’ve heard before that Dylan used her to get started. No doubt he got much bigger and more famous. \ The photos in that youtube video are amazing. They may tell a love story that never really happened. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/8 "2014-12-15T14:26:21Z")
Sara Lownds was more important personally to Dylan than Joan. Not even close. For impact and importance, the Beatles should be favored. John let Yoko break the group up and had the most famous marriage of any 60s icon, even though he left her for five years. Paul married Linda Eastman, put her in his band, and stayed apparently faithful to her until she died. A life-long love and partnership. You can’t get more ultimate. About the only other group that was defined by their girlfriends are Crosby, Stills & Nash. Crosby had had an affair with Joni Mitchell and introduced her to Nash. Stills was with Judy Collins. Crosby was crazy about Christine Hinton. Their first, perfect, album was all about their relationships. Then Stills broke up with Collins, Nash and Mitchell fought, and Hinton died in a horrible died accident and drove Crosby over the edge permanently. They all went nuts on drugs while the group and music died (with much help from Neil Young). That’s also the story of the 60s. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/9 "2014-12-15T14:34:50Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Sara Lownds was more important personally to Dylan than Joan. Not even close. I agree. I think Dylan made that point in the song Sara, with the line “staying up for days in the Chelsea Hotel, writing Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands for you” as if to emphasize that it was NOT about Baez. When I think of Baez, I think of her vapid and soulless performance of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. Comparing her version to that of The Band in the Last Waltz concert is like going from a tofu burger to the finest steak. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/10 "2014-12-15T16:52:57Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I dunno. Though it wasn’t my time and place, as a Dylan fan I’ve done a lot of reading about the matter and always gathered that for Dylan, Baez was not much more than a stepping stone for his career. He toured with her when he was primary, if at all, known as a songwriter and used her popularity to get a foothold as performer. When that goal was achieved, he didn’t have much use for her any more. Though she was still present on his British tour of 1965, she was largely ignored by then. Call me a cynic, but I don’t see many romantic aspects in their relationship, more manipulation and utilization. > > As for creativity, Baez probably taught Dylan some songs he adapted (or stole) as was always his wont, and Baez became one of the many performers of Dylan songs, but I don’t think that many great songs were inspired by this relationship. Suze Rotolo was IMHO the more important Dylan muse of his early career. Yep, in the film _Don’t Look Back_ you can see how crazy she was about him, yet he was pretty indifferent to her. In _No Direction Home_ Baez says about Dylan, “I don’t know what he thought about. I only know what he gave us.” One of my favorite quotes because it so perfectly captures his mystique. If I had to name some great romances of the 60s, I would probably lean more towards Sonny & Cher, Elizabeth Taylor & Richard Burton, or John Lennon & Yoko Ono. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/11 "2014-12-15T18:56:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Sara Lownds was more important personally to Dylan than Joan. Not even close. No doubt about that. And what a wealth of great songs that relationship did inspire! > [@BobLibDem](#): > > When I think of Baez, I think of her vapid and soulless performance of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. Comparing her version to that of The Band in the Last Waltz concert is like going from a tofu burger to the finest steak. Despite the tired old complaints about Dylan’s voice, he used to have many different voices back in the day (for at least the last 25 years, it’s been really shot, I grant that); he was really a variable singer. Joan Baez OTOH is one of the most one-dimensional singers I’ve lever heard, and her style is grating to me. > [@SaharaTea](#): > > Yep, in the film _Don’t Look Back_ you can see how crazy she was about him, yet he was pretty indifferent to her. Oh yes, that’s painful to watch. He was a rea ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/12 "2014-12-15T19:11:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Sara Lownds was more important personally to Dylan than Joan. Not even close. No doubt about that. And what a wealth of great songs that relationship did inspire! > [@BobLibDem](#): > > When I think of Baez, I think of her vapid and soulless performance of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. Comparing her version to that of The Band in the Last Waltz concert is like going from a tofu burger to the finest steak. Despite the tired old complaints about Dylan’s voice, he used to have many different voices back in the day (for at least the last 25 years, it’s been really shot, I grant that); he really was, within his obvious limitations, a variable singer. Joan Baez OTOH is one of the most one-dimensional singers I’ve ever heard, and her style is grating to me (I know, what Dylan is to many other people, but to each his own ;)). > [@SaharaTea](#): > > Yep, in the film _Don’t Look Back_ you can see how crazy she was about him, yet he was pretty indifferent to her. Oh yes, that’s painful to watch. He was a real prick to her on that tour. ETA: sorry for the double post, don’t know how that happened. Please disregard the first post, this is the final version. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/13 "2014-12-15T20:15:08Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Oh yes, that’s painful to watch. He was a real prick to her on that tour. And the real story, the stuff that didn’t get into the film, is even worse. The 1964 Carnegie Hall Concert CDs in the Bootleg series has a few tracks of them singing together - very unimpressive. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/14 "2014-12-15T20:19:09Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > When I think of Baez, I think of her vapid and soulless performance of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. Comparing her version to that of The Band in the Last Waltz concert is like going from a tofu burger to the finest steak. Not to mention that she couldn’t be bothered to get the words right. Not just a simple mistake, but one that showed she didn’t understand the historical context of the song. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/15 "2014-12-15T21:02:25Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And the real story, the stuff that didn’t get into the film, is even worse. IIRC, she had travelled with the notion of a joint tour, but was never invited to stage for the whole tour. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/16 "2014-12-15T22:09:52Z")
> [@SaharaTea](#): > > Yep, in the film _Don’t Look Back_ you can see how crazy she was about him, yet he was pretty indifferent to her. > > In _No Direction Home_ Baez says about Dylan, “I don’t know what he thought about. I only know what he gave us.” One of my favorite quotes because it so perfectly captures his mystique. > > If I had to name some great romances of the 60s, I would probably lean more towards Sonny & Cher, Elizabeth Taylor & Richard Burton, or John Lennon & Yoko Ono. I haven’t seen _Don’t Look Back_ and didn’t know how Dylan treated Baez. oh well, Sonny and Cher were a great couple in the 60’s then. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/17 "2014-12-15T22:20:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > When I think of Baez, I think of her vapid and soulless performance of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down. Comparing her version to that of The Band in the Last Waltz concert is like going from a tofu burger to the finest steak. If you say so – I don’t hear it myself. Mayhaps you just don’t like Joan Baez? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/18 "2014-12-17T23:17:32Z")
[quote=“Exapno\_Mapcase, post:8, topic:707239”] Paul married Linda Eastman, put her in his band, and stayed apparently faithful to her until she died. A life-long love and partnership. You can’t get more ultimate. QUOTE] If that’s the case, why was he so pissed at the rest of the world that he inflicted her singing upon us? No, he must have been in torment, and her wails were his inner torment psychically breaking out through her voice. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/19 "2014-12-17T23:18:47Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > If you say so – I don’t hear it myself. Mayhaps you just don’t like Joan Baez? This here. The Band’s version is quite a rube fest, and bland. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-and-joan-baez-the-ultimate-1960s-romance/707239/20 "2014-12-17T23:52:08Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > There’s always Mitch & Mickey. [Here](http://youtu.be/QwLZfPPM7GQ) they are at a reunion many years later. You know that they weren’t the model for Mitch & Mickey, right? They based those characters off of folk duos [Ian & Sylvia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_%26_Sylvia) (right down to the autoharp) and [Jim & Jean](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_and_Jean).