# Bob Dylan just won the Nobel Prize for literature **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405 "2016-10-13T11:11:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/41 "2016-10-13T16:33:03Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’m still betting it’s satire. IMHO it is not at all, when one remembers the context when Dylan was making songs like [The times they are a-changin.](https://vimeo.com/11205275) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/42 "2016-10-13T16:50:07Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > And just to set everyone’s head spinning a little - IMHO the current crop of poet/lyricists working today are all in the Rap/Hip Hop world. Today it’s a “folk singer” winning, in 30 years it could be a “rapper”. So in 2046, instead of Katy Perry, maybe it’s Kanye who wins the Nobel Prize for Literature ;). ---
**Author:** ![Lightbrite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3e96dc/32.png) [@Lightbrite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightbrite)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/43 "2016-10-13T16:51:05Z")
I’m alright with this. He was a good lyricist and his words certainly had a social/political impact on the time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/44 "2016-10-13T16:52:49Z")
> [@Lightbrite](#): > > I’m alright with this. Yeah, I wouldn’t think twice. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/45 "2016-10-13T16:54:11Z")
I just had one of the greatest shocks of my life, just to be revealed as one the best news I’ve heard in years: was driving home and heard the news on the radio, and at the end it went: “Finally, now to this news…” and they played a snippet of _Blowin’ In The Wind_, and I immediately thought: “Oh well, now’s the moment that your great hero has kicked the bucket at last”. You can imagine my relief and joy when it turned out to be the news of his Noble prize. He was in the running for several years, and I was totally prepared for the people who would denounce that decision, I’ve heard some of those denouncements preemptively, mostly from a haughty and snobbish POV. A songwriter, and a, gasp, rock musician! How dare they? One of Dylan’s early spot on self-descriptions was the he’s a “song and dance man”, that’s true, but think about the early foundations of Western literature: Homer was a songwriter, just like David (or whoever wrote the Psalms) and Solomon (or whoever wrote his songs). So nothing’s wrong about giving the prize to Dylan, and name one former lit prize winner of the last 50 years who had a greater influence and popularity. Yeah, as a big Dylan fan for quite a long time, I’m biased, but I’m also damned proud, not only for the man himself, but for the general acknowledgement for popular and folk music this decision implicates. And to honor the man, I’ll include my board signature with my favorite Dylan two-liner. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/46 "2016-10-13T16:57:38Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > So in 2046, instead of Katy Perry, maybe it’s Kanye who wins the Nobel Prize for Literature ;). More likely, some descendant-of-YouTube video maker. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/47 "2016-10-13T16:59:08Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I utterly loathe Bob Dylan - and yes, I know I’m in a tiny minority. The man is pretentious and inauthentic, and always has been. You want to hear REAL folk music? Listen to Woody or Arlo Guthrie. Woody Guthrie did come from hard times in Oklahoma (especially after his mother succumbed to the family curse & his father made some bad investments). But he traveled through California (_not_ as Dust Bowl Refugee) & to New York on [his road to fame](http://xroads.virginia.edu/~ma04/mccain/Guthrie/SignifyingTradition.htm). He set some of his lyrics to Carter Family tunes & worked with Alan Lomax. (Beyond the “sing into this can” relationship of some Lomax informants.) > [@](#): > > As the self described voice of “hard-hit” people, Guthrie capitalized upon his native Oklahoma accent to deliver a more-or-less convincingly authentic persona. As seventeen-year-old Bernard Asbell noted, “his Oklahoma Dust Bowl vowels and syllables, undisturbed by random human contact, were music enough even without the flow of his phrases and sentences that bubbled and sparkled like bursts of crystal, although made of the most ordinary words.” A tendency to mythologize the “pure” folk Other shines through in Asbell’s observation since, obviously, Guthrie’s impulse to peregrinate meant he did little to avoid “random human contact.” Furthermore, many people saw through Guthrie’s act, including Bess Lomax, Alan’s sister, who played with Guthrie in the Almanac Singers. She eventually became bothered by Guthrie’s “pretending he was such an ignorant country boy that he didn’t know how to behave properly in public” and claimed that “everybody knew it was an act.” Arlo Guthrie was born in Brooklyn; his Jewish mother had danced with Martha Graham. He received a fine, arty education. I love Woody. And Arlo. And the Carters–who _were_ mountain folk but learned about copywrite & show business. All these performers had folk roots but were hardly l"pure." I’m glad Bobby got the award! It’s not just for his own words–but for all the folks who influenced him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/48 "2016-10-13T17:08:09Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’m glad Bobby got the award! It’s not just for his own words–but for all the folks who influenced him. I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/49 "2016-10-13T17:30:24Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > Highway 61 Revisited > [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Yeah, that one. Or _Bringing it all Back Home._ > > _Blood on the Tracks_ came out when I was 14 years old, and I remember thinking “Bob Dylan is really a big deal. I should not only get the new album but listen to all his older stuff, too.” > > Luckily, BOTT turns out to ALSO be an excellent album with which to start. > > Yes, in my opinion Bob well deserves a Nobel. > [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > “Blood on the Tracks” is probably the most consistent and melodic – and has several (IMO) masterpieces. It’s a favorite of my 22 yo daughter as well. Thanks! Purchased _Highway 61 Revisited_ and have _Blood on the Tracks_ in my mental queue if I find myself enjoying Dylan more this time around. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/50 "2016-10-13T17:30:32Z")
Come on in, [Little\_Pig](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19698552#post19698552), we’ll give you shelter from the storm. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/51 "2016-10-13T17:34:21Z")
This just in: Keith Richards just won the Nobel Prize for Chemistry! Good on ya, Bob. Dylan wins a Nobel and a Thai king dies for the first time in 70 years. October 13 is a day for the history books. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/52 "2016-10-13T18:36:38Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Come on in, [Little\_Pig](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19698552#post19698552), we’ll give you shelter from the storm. 🙂 Thanks Amateur Barbarian. I guess every now and then [Ya Gotta Server Somebody.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frWP2TzpayM) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/53 "2016-10-13T18:41:49Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > This just in: Keith Richards just won the Nobel Prize for Chemistry! > > Good on ya, Bob. Dylan wins a Nobel and a Thai king dies for the first time in 70 years. October 13 is a day for the history books. :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/54 "2016-10-13T19:44:40Z")
Dylan is certainly worthy and I’m happy to see this. His music helped define an era in which many of us grew up and profound changes reshaped our society. Yet I can’t help but think that another poet and songwriter might have been even more deserving, because he comes from a place of much deeper introspection, one around which he has shaped his whole life, and that’s Leonard Cohen. Coincidentally, both artists’ careers were launched into the big leagues by the venerable record producer John Hammond, who is also credited with discovering at least half a dozen other icons of the music industry. Dylan came to his attention in 1961, Cohen five years later. The _New Yorker_ makes the following comparison that I think is both accurate and non-judgmental: Cohen’s links to Dylan were obvious – Jewish, literary, a penchant for Biblical imagery, Hammond’s tutelage – but the work was divergent. Dylan, even on his earliest records, was moving toward more surrealist, free-associative language and the furious abandon of rock and roll. Cohen’s lyrics were no less imaginative or charged, no less ironic or self-investigating, but he was clearer, more economical and formal, more liturgical. There’s also Cohen’s perfectionism, both in his performing and his writing. Not that the time and effort you put into something is by itself reflective of quality, but I thought it was interesting that the _New Yorker_ cites Dylan asking Cohen how long it took him to write “Hallelujah”, a song that Dylan admired. Cohen told him two years, but it was really closer to five. “Anthem” took him ten years to refine to his satisfaction. Cohen told Dylan, "I really like ‘I and I,’ " a song that appeared on Dylan’s album “Infidels.” “How long did it take you to write that?” “About fifteen minutes,” Dylan said. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/55 "2016-10-13T20:10:24Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Dylan is certainly worthy and I’m happy to see this. His music helped define an era in which many of us grew up and profound changes reshaped our society. Yet I can’t help but think that another poet and songwriter might have been even more deserving, because he comes from a place of much deeper introspection, one around which he has shaped his whole life, and that’s Leonard Cohen. Coincidentally, both artists’ careers were launched into the big leagues by the venerable record producer John Hammond, who is also credited with discovering at least half a dozen other icons of the music industry. Dylan came to his attention in 1961, Cohen five years later. > > The _New Yorker_ makes the following comparison that I think is both accurate and non-judgmental: > Cohen’s links to Dylan were obvious – Jewish, literary, a penchant for Biblical imagery, Hammond’s tutelage – but the work was divergent. Dylan, even on his earliest records, was moving toward more surrealist, free-associative language and the furious abandon of rock and roll. Cohen’s lyrics were no less imaginative or charged, no less ironic or self-investigating, but he was clearer, more economical and formal, more liturgical. > There’s also Cohen’s perfectionism, both in his performing and his writing. Not that the time and effort you put into something is by itself reflective of quality, but I thought it was interesting that the _New Yorker_ cites Dylan asking Cohen how long it took him to write “Hallelujah”, a song that Dylan admired. Cohen told him two years, but it was really closer to five. “Anthem” took him ten years to refine to his satisfaction. > Cohen told Dylan, "I really like ‘I and I,’ " a song that appeared on Dylan’s album “Infidels.” “How long did it take you to write that?” > > “About fifteen minutes,” Dylan said. If there was a like button here, I would click it for this post (not that we really need that for this board ;)). I knew the Cohen/Dylan story and always liked how it shows the very different approaches of how two geniuses of their trade could produce results of equal quality and depth. Yes, Dylan is many things, but NOT a perfectionist: for example, he hammered out a whole album (_Another Side Of Bob Dylan_) in a single drunken night (mostly first takes). If he didn’t like some words on his sheets before recording, he changed them in the studio, and if he didn’t like the recorded and “official” words, he changed them later on stage, again and again (notably the many different versions of _Tangled Up in Blue_). Cohen works very differently, but he’s indeed one of the very few peers of Dylan. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/56 "2016-10-13T20:14:44Z")
My two favourite lines: “Patriotism is the last refuge, to which a scoundrel clings.” (Yes, I’m aware, others said something very similar earlier, but his is better to my mind!) “I thought you’d be right there with when I paint my masterpiece.” So glad to hear he’d won this award! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/57 "2016-10-13T20:16:05Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > Highway 61 Revisited This ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/58 "2016-10-13T20:44:51Z")
Just had one more thought: I’d love to see Allen Ginsberg witness this happen. A bit of this prize also goes to the Beats, if a bit late… There, critics, you have your literature :). ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/59 "2016-10-13T20:46:39Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > According to one website, the poets who won the Nobel Prize are the following: > > Rabindranath Tagore > W.B. Yeats > Gabriela Mistral > T.S. Eliot > Pablo Neruda > Czeslaw Milosz > Octavia Paz > Seamus Heaney > Wislawa Szymborska > Rudyard Kipling > Romain Rolland > > Correct me if any of this is wrong. It’s Octavi **o** Paz, not Octavia. Romain Rolland was a poet but was better known for his prose; the official Nobel site identifies his field as prose [https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel\_prizes/literature/laureates/1915/rolland-facts.html](https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1915/rolland-facts.html) and says that he received the award for his novel _Jean-Christophe_ [https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel\_prizes/literature/laureates/1915/present.html](https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1915/present.html) I remember studying selections from _Jean-Christophe_ in high school French many years ago; I reread some of it recently and it’s a little like James Joyce’s _Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man_ A poet not on the list is Frédéric Mistral, 1904: “in recognition of the fresh originality and true inspiration of his poetic production, which faithfully reflects the natural scenery and native spirit of his people, and, in addition, his significant work as a Provençal philologist” > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1904](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1904/summary/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1904 was divided equally between Frédéric Mistral "in recognition of the fresh originality and true inspiration of his poetic production, which faithfully reflects the natural scenery and native spirit of his people,... Nelly Sachs, 1966, is also a poet: “for her outstanding lyrical and dramatic writing, which interprets Israel’s destiny with touching strength” > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1966](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1966/sachs/facts/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1966 was divided equally between Shmuel Yosef Agnon "for his profoundly characteristic narrative art with motifs from the life of the Jewish people" and Nelly Sachs "for her outstanding lyrical and dramatic writing,... And Tomas Tranströmer of Sweden (2014) received the prize for his poetry: > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 2011](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/2011/transtromer/facts/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 was awarded to Tomas Tranströmer "because, through his condensed, translucent images, he gives us fresh access to reality" ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405/60 "2016-10-13T21:05:00Z")
More poets not on the list above: 1992, Derek Walcott “for a poetic oeuvre of great luminosity, sustained by a historical vision, the outcome of a multicultural commitment” > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1992](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/uncategorized/the-nobel-prize-in-literature-1992/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1992 1987 Joseph Brodsky, for prose in English and poetry in Russian “for an all-embracing authorship, imbued with clarity of thought and poetic intensity” > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1987](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1987/brodsky/facts/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1987 was awarded to Joseph Brodsky "for an all-embracing authorship, imbued with clarity of thought and poetic intensity" 1984, Jaroslav Seifert “for his poetry which endowed with freshness, sensuality and rich inventiveness provides a liberating image of the indomitable spirit and versatility of man” > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1984](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1984/summary/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1984 was awarded to Jaroslav Seifert "for his poetry which endowed with freshness, sensuality and rich inventiveness provides a liberating image of the indomitable spirit and versatility of man" 1979, Odysseus Elytis “for his poetry, which, against the background of Greek tradition, depicts with sensuous strength and intellectual clear-sightedness modern man’s struggle for freedom and creativeness” > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1979](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1979/summary/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1979 was awarded to Odysseus Elytis "for his poetry, which, against the background of Greek tradition, depicts with sensuous strength and intellectual clear-sightedness modern man's struggle for freedom and creativeness" 1977, Vicente Aleixandre “for a creative poetic writing which illuminates man’s condition in the cosmos and in present-day society, at the same time representing the great renewal of the traditions of Spanish poetry between the wars”. > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1977](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1977/summary/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1977 was awarded to Vicente Aleixandre "for a creative poetic writing which illuminates man's condition in the cosmos and in present-day society, at the same time representing the great renewal of the traditions of... 1975 Eugenio Montale “for his distinctive poetry which, with great artistic sensitivity, has interpreted human values under the sign of an outlook on life with no illusions” > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 1975](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1975/summary/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 1975 was awarded to Eugenio Montale "for his distinctive poetry which, with great artistic sensitivity, has interpreted human values under the sign of an outlook on life with no illusions" And here’s the citation for Bob Dylan on the official Nobel site: “for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition”. > **[The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/2016/dylan/facts/)** > > The Nobel Prize in Literature 2016 was awarded to Bob Dylan "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition" [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-dylan-just-won-the-nobel-prize-for-literature/768405.md?page=4)