# Bob McDonnell trial/conviction **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583 "2014-09-05T14:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/1 "2014-09-05T14:37:19Z")
For those who don’t know what this is about - [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/us/bob-mcdonnell-maureen-mcdonnell-virginia-verdict.html?_r=0) I don’t understand something. The gifts that McDonnell received were given legally. There was no law against giving or receiving of those gifts. As far as I can find in the articles (very few go [into](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/26/gifts-favors-listed-in-former-governors-case/?page=all) [any detail](http://hamptonroads.com/2014/08/witnesses-mcdonnell-plugged-anatabloc-meeting)), McDonnell never gave the company in question any government contracts or any money from the treasury, or did anything for the company in his official capacity. What he did do, apparently (correct me if I am wrong), is connect the company’s CEO to some people. Which seems completely innocuous, and, in fact, is the standard “quid pro quo” in most political donations - by giving money to the politician you get access that you otherwise would not have. So - where exactly was the “crime”? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/2 "2014-09-05T15:02:11Z")
The crime was what youbdescribed. He took money and other gifts from the CEO of a dietary supplement company in exchange for setting up meetings between the CEO and state officials, and held a reception for the CEO in the governor’s mansion to get researchers to conduct studies on one of the company’s products. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/3 "2014-09-05T15:17:46Z")
He also posed for photos with the product used at their website, brought it up at cabinet meetings, and basically acted as a part-time spokesman for the snake oil. But, perhaps he did it because his wife was in love with the CEO. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/4 "2014-09-05T15:41:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The crime was what youbdescribed. He took money and other gifts from the CEO of a dietary supplement company in exchange for setting up meetings between the CEO and state officials, and held a reception for the CEO in the governor’s mansion to get researchers to conduct studies on one of the company’s products. Seriously, if that is the crime, then half (at least, I would suspect way more than that) of politicians belong in the same cell as McDonnell. Political contributors are not altruistic. They are paying for access and connections. What is the difference exactly between that and McDonnell case? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/5 "2014-09-05T15:45:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Seriously, if that is the crime, then half (at least, I would suspect way more than that) of politicians belong in the same cell as McDonnell. Political contributors are not altruistic. They are paying for access and connections. What is the difference exactly between that and McDonnell case? These were not “political contributions.” They were not checks written to a campaign. They were gifts to the Governor and his family. Expensive gifts. Personal gifts. A [watch, wedding expenses, golf bags, use of a Farrari](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/jaw-dropping-photos-bob-mcdonnell-trial/story?id=24812765). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/6 "2014-09-05T15:48:39Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > These were not “political contributions.” They were not checks written to a campaign. They were gifts to the Governor and his family. Expensive gifts. Personal gifts. Legal gifts. Or at least “no-law-against-it-gifts”. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/7 "2014-09-05T15:53:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Legal gifts. Or at least “no-law-against-it-gifts”. Since he’s been convicted, I would suggest that you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/8 "2014-09-05T15:55:56Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Since he’s been convicted, I would suggest that you are wrong. That’s tautological. It is a fact that there was no law in Virginia at the time against giving or receiving of the gifts of the kind he received. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/9 "2014-09-05T15:58:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s tautological. It is a fact that there was no law in Virginia at the time against giving or receiving of the gifts of the kind he received. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/10 "2014-09-05T16:00:17Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Cite? Cite on NON-existence of the law? [Ok.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-politics/virginia-has-one-of-nations-most-lax-ethics-laws-for-politicians/2013/04/27/8f1e1218-a774-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html) The gifts do have to be reported, and McDonnell did, when required. But requiring the reporting of someone allowing you to drive his Ferrari for three hours is really stretching it. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/11 "2014-09-05T16:02:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s tautological. It is a fact that there was no law in Virginia at the time against giving or receiving of the gifts of the kind he received. Doesn’t make it right or ethical. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/12 "2014-09-05T16:04:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cite on NON-existence of the law? [Ok.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-politics/virginia-has-one-of-nations-most-lax-ethics-laws-for-politicians/2013/04/27/8f1e1218-a774-11e2-a8e2-5b98cb59187f_story.html) Cite that the law(s) the McDonnell’s were convicted of did not exist at the time the offenses were committed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/13 "2014-09-05T16:04:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Legal gifts. Or at least “no-law-against-it-gifts”. The gifts themselves were legal, but the prosecution successfully convinced the jury that the actions the McDonnell’s took to benefit the gift-givers after receiving the gifts fit the definition of corruption. It seems like if these gifts that resulted in access/connections/etc. had been political donations to political campaigns, the McDonnell’s would be in the clear. But since they were personal gifts, they were (according to the prosecution) sufficient evidence of corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/14 "2014-09-05T16:05:47Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Doesn’t make it right or ethical. The court (which is what I am addressing) does not concern itself with what is “right” or “ethical”, but with what is legal. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/15 "2014-09-05T16:09:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s tautological. It is a fact that there was no law in Virginia at the time against giving or receiving of the gifts of the kind he received. He was convicted of violating federal law. ETA: How is this even a close case? I can see the argument that Gov. Perry didn’t commit a crime, but McDonald’s actions are classic corruption. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/16 "2014-09-05T16:09:24Z")
This is about a quid pro quo, so they weren’t gifts, they were payments. There is no clear distinction between paying for access and making a campaign contribution, except that one is legal, and the other is not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/17 "2014-09-05T16:34:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s tautological. It is a fact that there was no law in Virginia at the time against giving or receiving of the gifts of the kind he received. There is no law in most states against pre-marital sex - but there is one against _paying_ (or charging) for it nearly everywhere. You can read [the indictment](https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1008121/mcdonnell-indictment.pdf) if you want to see which specific federal statutes he was convicted under. McDonnell used his office to promote the product in exchange for ‘favors’. He could have accepted payment openly to promote the products after leaving office, or in a non-official capacity (like, say, Bob Dole shilling Viagra). What he couldn’t do was accept payment to promote the products in his capacity as governor. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/18 "2014-09-05T16:45:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > McDonnell used his office to promote the product in exchange for ‘favors’. As far as I can see, from the articles, he “promoted” the product in unofficial capacity, not “using his office”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/19 "2014-09-05T16:51:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As far as I can see, from the articles, he “promoted” the product in unofficial capacity, not “using his office”. The jury disagreed. And many people find the concept of a Governor being paid to promote a product in an unofficial capacity to be humorous. He wouldn’t have been given those payments to promote the product if he wasn’t governor. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583/20 "2014-09-05T16:51:33Z")
> **[The McDonnell verdict's lesson](https://www.politico.com/story/2014/09/the-mcdonnell-verdicts-lesson-politicians-beware-110620?hp=l1)** > > Politicians beware: Don't think you're off the hook. McDonnell was convicted even though the most the prosecution could prove was that he did fairly mundane things such as setting up meetings for businessman Jonnie Williams, who was trying to promote a dietary supplement — as opposed to official acts enumerated under state laws, such as the power to appoint someone to an office. … Stan Brand, a Democratic attorney who specializes in campaign finance and government ethics, said the broad definition of McDonnell’s actions should make other governors and politicians think twice about even their informal actions. “I think governors and others have to think, ‘Wow, it’s not just the authority that I have under the statute — it’s all the informal things that I do,’” Brand said. … the case against them was built around more low-key events, such as McDonnell’s instructions to set up meetings for Williams or attending an event at the governor’s mansion that marked the launch of one of Williams’ new products. And prosecutors were unable to show that Williams got anything tangible for all the money he showered on the McDonnell family. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bob-mcdonnell-trial-conviction/697583.md?page=2)