# "Body double" - what it is and isn't **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [May 21, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888 "2024-05-21T22:02:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/21 "2024-05-22T13:32:03Z")
While we’re at it, people need to stop calling homosexuals “gay”. That’s wrong. Gay obviously means happy. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/22 "2024-05-22T18:33:11Z")
I decline the invitation to join Prescriptivists Club ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/23 "2024-05-22T18:42:23Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > But stand-in is also a term of art in the film industry. It’s almost like words and phrases can have multiple meanings, and they may change over time. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/24 "2024-05-22T18:48:35Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > “Body double” is a term of art from the movie business that refers to someone who appears in below-the-neck shots in place of an actor who won’t do nude scenes, or perhaps has the wrong body type for the character. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what “term of art” means. That is a word used in a very specific way by a particular speech community. Outside that community, other usages may be used. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/25 "2024-05-22T18:51:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > IIRC Saddam Hussein was known for using doubles in order to evade assassination (like many despots, he became ultra-paranoid). Reminds me of a joke from during the (second?) Gulf War after a bomb was dropped that was intended directly for Hussein… Saddam Hussein’s second-in-command rounds up all Hussein’s doubles in the aftermath of the explosion. “I have good news and bad news” he says to them. “The good news is, our great leader survived the explosion!” “The bad news is, he lost an arm and a leg.” ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/26 "2024-05-23T05:50:01Z")
[quote=“Telemark, post:18, topic:1001888, full:true”] > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It seems the dictionary defintion agrees with the OP: > [/quote]Did you mean _disagrees_? Because that seems to contradict the OP. No, Cambridge Dictionary does not endorse any use other than the one from the film industry. Examples, pulled from the internet at random, don’t always stick to that usage, but they are just there as examples and I don’t think qualify as correct usage exacept in a grammatical sense. > [@jjakucyk](#): > > Also, a minor quibble, body doubles don’t necessarily have to be shot from the neck down. They could be far in the background and out of focus, or they may just be shot from behind, such as when the main actor is playing multiple characters in the same scene. True - I’ll accept those as legitimate applications, again from the film biz. > [@Telemark](#): > > > [@jjakucyk](#): > > > > But stand-in is also a term of art in the film industry. > > It’s almost like words and phrases can have multiple meanings, and they may change over time. True, but in this case it’s very clear from where, amd at what time (1983 when the movie came out) the term crossed over into common usage, but it’s a misreading of how the term was applied in its limited film-jargon coinage; the “body” appendage is confusing if one wants to expand it to general use; there were already terms (“double” by itself being one) that conveyed the sense of a person used as a decoy. It’s still not too late to quash this clumsy and ill-informed piece of mission creep, please tell me you will keep that in mind and refuse to transmit this virus and we can go back to being a civilized society. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/27 "2024-05-23T12:06:10Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > It’s still not too late to quash this clumsy and ill-informed piece of mission creep Even if it were a worthy goal (which it isn’t) language doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/28 "2024-05-23T12:16:50Z")
Body double in this context doesn’t seem to mean someone with the same body type as it does in movies. It seems to be analogous with “body guard,” with the implication that this is the body that would take the bullet for you. I believe there are more specific terms for the acting situation, like hand double or even apparently “nude double.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/29 "2024-05-23T12:59:06Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > transmit this virus Woah woah woah. A virus is a microbe that infects living cells. Let’s keep that in mind and avoid using terms in any way other than in the one single specific context they were originally used for. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/30 "2024-05-23T13:22:05Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > It’s still not too late to quash this clumsy and ill-informed piece of mission creep, please tell me you will keep that in mind and refuse to transmit this virus and we can go back to being a civilized society. Here’s another expression from cinema, circa 1974: > Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/31 "2024-05-23T13:23:49Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > It’s still not too late to quash this clumsy and ill-informed piece of mission creep, _[Ahem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep)_ > [@](#): > > **Mission creep** is the gradual or incremental expansion of an intervention, project or mission, beyond its original scope, focus or [goals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective_(goal)), a [ratchet effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratchet_effect) spawned by initial success.[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep#cite_note-1) Mission creep is usually considered undesirable due to how each success breeds more ambitious interventions until a final failure happens, stopping the intervention entirely. > > The term was originally applied exclusively to [military operations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_operation), but has recently been applied to many other fields, making the phrase [autological](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autological_word). The phrase first appeared in 1993, in articles published in _[The Washington Post](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Post)_ and in _[The New York Times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times)_ concerning the [United Nations peacekeeping](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_peacekeeping) mission during the [Somali Civil War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Civil_War). I presume this is performance art. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/32 "2024-05-23T13:28:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what “term of art” means. That is a word used in a very specific way by a particular speech community. Outside that community, other usages may be used. Did you just use some jargon to describe jargon? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/33 "2024-05-23T15:40:14Z")
It’s jargon all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/34 "2024-05-23T18:27:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Body double in this context doesn’t seem to mean someone with the same body type as it does in movies. It seems to be analogous with “body guard,” with the implication that this is the body that would take the bullet for you. If so (and it isn’t), it’s nothing but an attempt after the fact to justify the inclusion of “body” into the mistaken adoption of the term. Once you know where “body double” came from, you start to look rather silly. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/35 "2024-05-23T18:43:09Z")
I’m trying to get people to stop saying “free reign” and “shoe-in.” Get in line. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/36 "2024-05-23T18:56:37Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > No, Cambridge Dictionary does not endorse any use other than the one from the film industry. Before we continue: do you think dictionaries are in the business of endorsing uses? ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/37 "2024-05-23T19:15:54Z")
By their inclusion, yes. So for years they may have watched a term or a pronunciation with an eye to whether to include it. Generally they are wary of faddish uses, but if something seems to be sticking they will vote on whether to add it, often as an alternative but acceptable pronunciation or definition, taking note perhaps of how and why it deserved to be incorporated. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/38 "2024-05-23T19:30:55Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > By their inclusion, yes. You are incorrect. This is not a matter of opinion. Here’s what Cambridge says: [https://www.cambridge.org/gb/cambridgeenglish/better-learning-insights/corpus](https://www.cambridge.org/gb/cambridgeenglish/better-learning-insights/corpus) > [@](#): > > Think of a question you have about how English is used. To find the answer, perhaps you might ask a friend what they think? Perhaps you could ask your whole class, so you’d have a better idea about how representative the answer is? Imagine if you could ask your whole neighbourhood? Imagine if you could ask your whole city or even your country? > > This is how corpus linguistics works. Because we gather data from a huge range of speakers and writers of English, we can identify the typical use of words and phrases. They are not “endorsing” uses. They’re reporting on typical uses. There is only one reasonable standard for whether a usage is a good usage: does it successfully communicate the speaker’s idea to the intended audience? If someone sees that it does, but tries to stop people from using it, they’re just getting in the way of language. ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/39 "2024-05-23T19:49:02Z")
Okay then, if that’s not endorsement, what word would you use to describe the practice of cautious editing, waiting for something to prove its commonality before comitting it to print in a source people depend on? The Oxford folks gave the Homer Simpson-via-James Finlayson word-like object “doh” a pass, but refuses to spell it “d’oh” like a lot of the horde because that’s just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888/40 "2024-05-23T19:59:25Z")
> [@Hatchie](#): > > The Oxford folks gave the Homer Simpson-via-James Finlayson word-like object > “doh” a pass, but refuses to spell it “d’oh” like a lot of the horde because that’s just ignorant. The last word of that sentence is a bit ironic, don’tcha think? > **[Definition of D'OH](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/d%27oh)** > > —used to express sudden recognition of a foolish blunder or an ironic turn of events… See the full definition > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/doh)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! > **[d'oh](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/d-oh)** > > 1. said when you feel stupid, usually after doing something silly, or to show… and, for the _piece de resistance_: > **[d'oh exclamation - Definition, pictures, pronunciation and usage notes |...](https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/d-oh)** > > Definition of d'oh exclamation in Oxford Advanced American Dictionary. Meaning, pronunciation, picture, example sentences, grammar, usage notes, synonyms and more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-double-what-it-is-and-isnt/1001888.md?page=3)