# Body Scan or Pat Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624 "2010-11-23T03:26:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/61 "2010-11-23T19:44:32Z")
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idICUSiGcqo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idICUSiGcqo) German demonstration of how well scanners work. Chertoff does make a lot of money though. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/62 "2010-11-23T19:50:11Z")
> [@Vihaga](#): > > Well, they do make it more annoying for everyone. If every single person gave a lecture to the security folks, and every single person opted for the search option that takes the longest, there would be time to search fewer people in order to keep even a modicum of efficiency, or they’d have to spend more money hiring more people. So, if someone is against more invasive searches, that might actually be semi-effective, long-term. I don’t know where people are getting this idea, but it’s categorically false. The TSA does not cater to public will, nor do they care how long it takes you to get through security. There is absolutely zero motivation for them to hire more people to work the checkpoints. A bunch of people protesting by slowing the entire process down isn’t going to matter to the TSO who’s working his 8 hour shift regardless. The only people that are going to be affected are fellow travelers, who will be subjected to lengthy lines and potentially missed flights. Then they get angry, they decide to join the next protest, and the cycle continues. Meanwhile, why should the TSA care, again? ---
**Author:** ![Atrael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Atrael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atrael)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/63 "2010-11-23T20:03:24Z")
Pat down for me. As others have said, I’ve had to turn my head and cough for both male and female doctors for most of my adult life, so no biggie. The sample images that I’ve seen are detailed enough that I don’t want them hanging around in some digital form with nothing but the assurances of the TSA that they won’t be used inappropriately. The scanners are worthless if the images can’t be saved and used for prosecution purposes. Same with having some system of correlating the scanned image with a video or still image of the person being scanned. If the outlines are so unidentifiable, then you couldn’t use them to prosecute anyone. The biggest issue I have is the one noted in the article linked to by **joebuck20** , none of these steps actually increases safety or stops any sort of intelligent terrorist. We have some pretty smart people on the dope here, how long do you think it would take most of us with any sort of technical or electronic background to come up with something that would crash an aircraft simply from the electronics that are available from **within the airport**? I guarantee you that I could do it, not even counting what you could get on board via the baggage handlers, airport staff, caterers that load the drinks and peanuts on board. There are dozens of ways to disable a plane that would cause it to crash. Hell I could probably even figure out a way to melt/burn/or cut through the bolt on the cockpit if I put my mind to it. So what does any of this stuff do? Nothing…absolutely nothing…at the cost of $7 billion a year. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/64 "2010-11-23T20:10:03Z")
I don’t care about the images of me. I know what I look like, and you can too, for all I care. That said, I would take the pat down. The effects of radiation are cumulative (as has been noted before) and I too have had enough exposure to X-rays in my life. I know I will (likely) have more. I know the flight will give me more. But I just don’t want to play the odds that maybe that one extra scan at just the right moment won’t be the one to mutate an errant cell that ends up killing me in a tragic (to me, anyway), costly, painful manner. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/65 "2010-11-23T20:23:45Z")
> [@Atrael](#): > > The scanners are worthless if the images can’t be saved and used for prosecution purposes. Same with having some system of correlating the scanned image with a video or still image of the person being scanned. If the outlines are so unidentifiable, then you couldn’t use them to prosecute anyone. Why would you need the scanner images to prosecute? If they spot something suspicious on the scanner you’re frisked and an actual bomb found they’re going to use that at the trial. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/66 "2010-11-23T20:24:12Z")
Pat-down. Human hands don’t have digital memories. These images WILL eventually be hacked/leaked/distributed and given the rapid advances in photo analysis technology, within ten years they may be googleable. I was amused on a recent trip to NYC to think that while I was standing in the background of other people’s photos that someday, within my lifetime, someone will put that photo up online and a program will do facial recognition on my face and pop up a name for a instant caption. This is something I’m more aware of than average because I have done some work in that field. It’s closer than most people think. So I’m careful about what image I present overall, especially in public. A body scanner image isn’t one I want floating around, so I won’t allow one to be made if I can help it. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/67 "2010-11-23T20:40:22Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Loudmouths make a lot of noise. [Most people are not offended by the airport scanners](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20022876-503544.html). I see your poll from a week ago and raise you a[poll released yesterday](http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/new-poll-suggests-shift-in-public-views-on-t-s-a-procedures/) that suggests approval has dropped 17 percentage points in that week, if both polls are considered accurate. Moreover, the rate of approval is far less among people who fly regularly than those who don’t. (And for purposes of defining “regularly” the survey used the standard of “at least once a year.”) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/68 "2010-11-23T20:47:51Z")
> [@Mtgman](#): > > Pat-down. Human hands don’t have digital memories. These images WILL eventually be hacked/leaked/distributed and given the rapid advances in photo analysis technology, within ten years they may be googleable. I was amused on a recent trip to NYC to think that while I was standing in the background of other people’s photos that someday, within my lifetime, someone will put that photo up online and a program will do facial recognition on my face and pop up a name for a instant caption. This is something I’m more aware of than average because I have done some work in that field. It’s closer than most people think. So I’m careful about what image I present overall, especially in public. A body scanner image isn’t one I want floating around, so I won’t allow one to be made if I can help it. > > Enjoy, > Steven What are we going to see? Is your dick _that_ small that we’ll all point and laugh? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/69 "2010-11-23T21:16:50Z")
I, unfortunately, have to fly for work, but I also choose none of the above. Yes, I will be one of those hooligans who makes you late for your flight. They can’t arrest all of us…unless ‘all of us’ turns out to be just me. SOLIDARITY! ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/70 "2010-11-23T21:21:50Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I, unfortunately, have to fly for work, but I also choose none of the above. > > Yes, I will be one of those hooligans who makes you late for your flight. > > They can’t arrest all of us…unless ‘all of us’ turns out to be just me. SOLIDARITY! I don’t think many participants in this stunt will be arrested. Rather, I hope the TSOs get it down to a quick science. “You’ve been selected for the AIT machine.” “I opt out.” “Step this way, here are our new pat down techniques.” “I refuse to be touched in that way.” “Then you will not travel. Have a nice day!” Yes, I know the story of the man that was threatened with legal action because he wouldn’t play ball. I hope the TSA did learn from that incident, though, and is anticipating the onslaught of Freedom Fighters tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/71 "2010-11-23T21:35:33Z")
> [@atomicbadgerrace](#): > > I don’t think many participants in this stunt will be arrested. Rather, I hope the TSOs get it down to a quick science. > > “You’ve been selected for the AIT machine.” > “I opt out.” > “Step this way, here are our new pat down techniques.” > “I refuse to be touched in that way.” > “Then you will not travel. Have a nice day!” In practice, line 5 and on is often: TSO: “Do you want to fly today?” Passenger: “No.” TSO: “There is a $11,000 fine for refusing to complete the screening process.” Passenger: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/72 "2010-11-23T21:37:42Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > In practice, line 5 and on is often: > TSO: “Do you want to fly today?” > Passenger: “No.” > TSO: “There is a $11,000 fine for refusing to complete the screening process.” > Passenger: 😕 Cite for “often”? I only recall the one incident in San Diego. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/73 "2010-11-23T21:38:45Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > What are we going to see? Is your dick **that** small that we’ll all point and laugh? There are precious few things in this world that are mine and mine alone. My mind and my body are pretty much it. I choose how I share them with people, and under what circumstances. It’s a personal autonomy thing. I get to choose who gets to see me naked and the intimacy involved with such activity. I won’t willingly give up control of that choice for something as paltry as illusory security. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/74 "2010-11-23T21:43:30Z")
So, for the pat down…are the gloves for their protection or ours? ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/75 "2010-11-23T21:44:09Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > In practice, line 5 and on is often: > TSO: “Do you want to fly today?” > Passenger: “No.” > TSO: “There is a $11,000 fine for refusing to complete the screening process.” > Passenger: 😕 “Often”? How do you know this? And if somebody buys a plane ticket for the sole purpose of screwing with the TSA, with no intention of actually flying, then I’d hope they’d be subject to \*at least \*a hefty fine. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/76 "2010-11-23T22:14:07Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So, for the pat down…are the gloves for their protection or ours? Since they aren’t changing gloves between fondles, I’m guessing theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/77 "2010-11-23T22:19:20Z")
Pat down. Pat downs can’t really tell you what I look like naked. A scan can tell you how big my junk is, and that’s private (heh) information. They can also get posted on the internet. I also don’t have boobs to be groped. Women, however, have more parts that can be explicitly groped but a picture of them from a scan looks like a barbie doll at best. So in my mind, all women should opt for the scan and all men should opt for the pat down. > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > You do realize that the person patting you down will neither be attractive nor female, don’t you? “If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, just go real limp, because maybe you’ll look like a dummy and people will try to catch you because, hey, free dummy.” - Jack Handy ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/78 "2010-11-23T22:30:23Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Since they aren’t changing gloves between fondles, I’m guessing theirs. If they don’t automatically, ask them to. [QUOTE=[http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial\_1567.shtm](http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/specialneeds/editorial_1567.shtm)] You have the right to ask a Security Officer to change her/his gloves during the physical inspection of your accessible property, before performing a physical search (pat-down,) or any time a Security Officer handles your footwear. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/79 "2010-11-23T23:57:00Z")
Body Scan. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624/80 "2010-11-24T00:17:31Z")
You know, I’ve been through airports where I was strip-searched at gunpoint by people who didn’t speak English (or any language that I know more than four words of). I’ll take the scan; they’re about equally invasive but the scan is much faster. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-scan-or-pat-down/561624.md?page=5)