# Body Signals and the Fall of Radical Islam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015 "2015-10-09T11:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/181 "2015-10-17T14:35:34Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > I’ve been mapping the signals for decades. The Muslim thing is very recent. I see. But if you set aside the Muslims, aren’t the results the same with everybody else, and no one still adhering to your body signal beliefs? If so, why do you suppose that is? It may be a spiritual thing for you as you say, with it not being a scientific theory, but would you agree, that doesn’t mean science can’t still be used to test it? ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/182 "2015-10-17T14:44:51Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > > [@razncain](#): > > > > If you were to reach a radical Muslim with this, for all you know, they could easily interpret their itches, twitches, and pain as inspiration to go out and do more mayhem, and more killings, thinking it was a good thing and a sign from God. > > I hope not. :eek: Has an itch ever convinced you of anything you didn’t already believe? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/183 "2015-10-17T15:02:10Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > You do have a point, but it’s better than doing nothing at all. What are **you** doing to help? Convincing people with silly ideas but good motives to do something practical instead of something completely quixotic. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/184 "2015-10-17T15:57:46Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > I see. But if you set aside the Muslims, aren’t the results the same with everybody else, and no one still adhering to your body signal beliefs? If so, why do you suppose that is? The signals are subtle, operating in the background so as not to destroy faith. > [@](#): > > It may be a spiritual thing for you as you say, with it not being a scientific theory, but would you agree, that doesn’t mean science can’t still be used to test it? I would love for someone to test it scientifically. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/185 "2015-10-17T16:05:01Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Has an itch ever convinced you of anything you didn’t already believe? Yes, lots of times. That’s what they’re for, to convince us of truths we don’t believe. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/186 "2015-10-17T16:10:09Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > The signals are subtle, operating in the background so as not to destroy faith. So subtle, I suppose, that only you thus far have been able to detect it, thus no one else? > [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > I would love for someone to test it scientifically. What would you propose as a fair test? You are familiar with Randi? What can you already do with the data you’ve collected in terms of accurately determining whatever it is you do with the itches, twitches, cramps and pain? ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/187 "2015-10-17T16:17:28Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > So subtle, I suppose, that only you thus far have been able to detect it, thus no one else? I guess so. > [@](#): > > What would you propose as a fair test? You are familiar with Randi? What can you already do with the data you’ve collected in terms of accurately determining whatever it is you do with the itches, twitches, cramps and pain? I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/188 "2015-10-17T18:06:08Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > Yes, lots of times. That’s what they’re for, to convince us of truths we don’t believe. Can you give any examples? How do you know you weren’t right before? ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/189 "2015-10-17T18:06:23Z")
I like the divergent thinking generally. But Snark, are you saying that if anyone were to contemplate an evil act, such as child murder, that one part/side of their body will feel a message? In all cases? And you don’t believe it is possible to have the opposite message, on that impulse, regardless of where on the Earth you come from? If it is possible to get a paradoxical message then your message system breaks down doesn’t it? I’m thinking that given the way we read horoscopes as humans, that this is an impossible value system. I got a twitch in the good part to remind me of the good I’m abandoning, or in the bad to remind me that I shouldn’t murder a child. Could go either way. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/190 "2015-10-17T18:18:50Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > The signals are subtle, operating in the background so as not to destroy faith. Faith is not a virtue, and any God who requires faith is a sadist or a lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/191 "2015-10-17T18:45:17Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > Can you give any examples? How do you know you weren’t right before? These questions are giving me a figurative headache. The worst, most painful signals to me are the rib cramps, which mean you are unwittingly following an evil spirit. Once your rib muscles contract between your ribs and stay that way until you change your path, you quickly learn to avoid Satan’s influence and repent! That’s the best example I can think of right now. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/192 "2015-10-17T18:54:49Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > I like the divergent thinking generally. > > But Snark, are you saying that if anyone were to contemplate an evil act, such as child murder, that one part/side of their body will feel a message? In all cases? And you don’t believe it is possible to have the opposite message, on that impulse, regardless of where on the Earth you come from? If it is possible to get a paradoxical message then your message system breaks down doesn’t it? > > I’m thinking that given the way we read horoscopes as humans, that this is an impossible value system. I got a twitch in the good part to remind me of the good I’m abandoning, or in the bad to remind me that I shouldn’t murder a child. Could go either way. It’s usually only when you’re not sure if a thought or action is good or evil that God responds with a signal. God knows when you’re faking it. And no, your location on the Earth has nothing to do with it, to my knowledge (why would it?) ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/193 "2015-10-17T18:57:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Faith is not a virtue, and any God who requires faith is a sadist or a lunatic. False and false again. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/194 "2015-10-17T19:06:19Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > These questions are giving me a figurative headache. The worst, most painful signals to me are the rib cramps, which mean you are unwittingly following an evil spirit. Once your rib muscles contract between your ribs and stay that way until you change your path, you quickly learn to avoid Satan’s influence and repent! That’s the best example I can think of right now. That’s a sidestitch. Stop running away from demons unless you’re warmed up and breathing without strain. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/195 "2015-10-18T12:02:44Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > I’ve been mapping the signals for decades. The Muslim thing is very recent. > > I hope not. :eek: As a muslim let me say that for a muslim to accept this… interesting delusion, they would have to be leaving the religion. It is clearly _Shirk_ and unislamic. As a secular, I am bemused I think is the word that anyone would think this is a convincing idea. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/196 "2015-10-19T13:40:25Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > As a muslim let me say that for a muslim to accept this… interesting delusion, they would have to be leaving the religion. It is clearly _Shirk_ and unislamic. > > As a secular, I am bemused I think is the word that anyone would think this is a convincing idea. I wasn’t convinced at first either, but the signals are so consistent that I eventually had to take them seriously. I don’t expect people who hear the theory to embrace it all at once. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/197 "2015-10-19T14:13:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your conception of God is that God is insane. God’s almighty and all-knwoing. If God wanted to give me messages through my body, it could speak directly in my ear in unambiguous language. Instead, God decides to send me symbolic signals through itches on various parts of my body, does that for everyone, in a code that nobody except you seems even to realize exists. > > What possible motive would an all-powerful, omniscient being have for engaging in such a bizarrely ineffective means of communication? > > I can think of only two motives: insanity or malevolence. You forgot humor. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/198 "2015-10-19T14:13:56Z")
**Left eye** = **Seeing Justice** as it relates to you **Right eye** = **Seeing Mercy** as it relates to you **Forehead / Headache / Fever** = **You’re deceived** **Lips** = **Mulling over / repenting of your sins** **Left back of neck** = **Evil judgment rendered** **Right back of neck** = **Merciful / Good judgment rendered** **Front of neck** = **You’re cut off from God’s presence** due to unrepented sin **Pectorals / Breasts** = **Corruption** **Stomach** = **You’ve “swallowed” / taken in an untruth** **Hips** = **You haven’t thought an issue all the way through** **Knees** = **evil intentions (left) / good intentions (right)** **Big toes** = **Yes / True (right) | No / False (left)** ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/199 "2015-10-19T14:52:54Z")
Do these signals work on falsifiable questions? Consider two issues: a complex math problem and whether to buy or lease your next car. We can know if you got th math problem right. There’s no way to know if buying or leasing your next car is better for you – it’s basically a matter of opinion. I’m sure you think these signals will help you decide on your car purchase. Can they help with the math problem? ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/200 "2015-10-19T15:47:23Z")
There’s a whole [book](http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806) about various Mormons who take the promise of “personal revelation” very seriously. It does not end well for anyone involved. The Laffertys, Brian David Mitchell, John D Lee, and a dozen others. This “theory” of body signals is amusing for now, but I hope you’ll sober up before some combination of aches and itches convinces you that God commands you to harm someone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015.md?page=11)