# Body Signals and the Fall of Radical Islam **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015 "2015-10-09T11:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/301 "2015-10-26T20:45:21Z")
So, eating beans is bad for your spirituality? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/302 "2015-10-26T20:50:36Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So, eating beans is bad for your spirituality? So said Pythagoras. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/303 "2015-10-26T20:51:41Z")
But I’ve always heard they’re ‘good for your heart.’ The more you eat… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/304 "2015-10-27T07:14:09Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > Simple. Because the more messed up or out of whack a person is (justifying _jihads_, for instance), the more God will manifest Himself to get through to that person. Do you mean he’ll try more in general and by every means possible, or just that he’ll try more of this One, Weird, Itchy Trick? > [@](#): > > I know this from personal experience, as I’ve been pretty much out of whack myself. There is no darkness of mind and heart that Allah cannot penetrate. It’s not working very well so far, is it? What all-powerful being, if sane, would choose to remedy a severe and urgent problem with subtle and completely obscure signals? You’re making it sound like God is either mentally incompetent or crippled by shyness. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/305 "2015-10-27T08:42:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Do you mean he’ll try more in general and by every means possible, or just that he’ll try more of this One, Weird, Itchy Trick? The former. He leaves the 99 safe in their pasture to go in search of the one lost sheep. > [@](#): > > It’s not working very well so far, is it? > > What all-powerful being, if sane, would choose to remedy a severe and urgent problem with subtle and completely obscure signals? You’re making it sound like God is either mentally incompetent or crippled by shyness. He has to allow for free agency so that we are accountable for what we do and say. Also, by small means, great things are brought to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/306 "2015-10-28T06:56:33Z")
Do you believe that certainty is better than doubt? This is the really weird thing about faith - it’s presented as a virtue when people doggedly and determinedly stand the ground of their belief against all opposition - but in fact it’s a pretty serious weakness. It’s better to be right than wrong - right? In cases where you are already right, It’s better to _find out for sure_ that you could have been wrong, but are in fact, right. In cases where you’re wrong, tt’s better to find out when you are wrong, _as early as possible_, so you can start being right. Steadfast faith will not (cannot in fact) do any of that. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/307 "2015-10-28T11:45:58Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Do you believe that certainty is better than doubt? > > This is the really weird thing about faith - it’s presented as a virtue when people doggedly and determinedly stand the ground of their belief against all opposition - but in fact it’s a pretty serious weakness. > > It’s better to be right than wrong - right? > > In cases where you are already right, It’s better to _find out for sure_ that you could have been wrong, but are in fact, right. > In cases where you’re wrong, tt’s better to find out when you are wrong, _as early as possible_, so you can start being right. > > Steadfast faith will not (cannot in fact) do any of that. Yet that is what this mortal life is for. Our Heavenly Father _wants us to walk by faith_, trusting Him and following His example. Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things, but it is a hope for things not seen. I have to admit that I don’t have perfect faith–not even close–so I’m the wrong person to ask about this subject. But we have to start somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/308 "2015-10-28T19:48:34Z")
I guess that’s going to be where we can’t possibly reach agreement then. It seems obvious to me thst it is more important, and useful, to seek truth rather than certainty. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/309 "2015-10-28T19:54:40Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I guess that’s going to be where we can’t possibly reach agreement then. It seems obvious to me thst it is more important, and useful, to seek truth rather than certainty. I’ve found both. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/310 "2015-10-28T20:20:39Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > I’ve found both. That’s just your opinion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/311 "2015-10-28T20:59:00Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > I’ve found both. You’ve given up looking. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/312 "2015-10-28T22:55:33Z")
Damn. I was hoping this thread would devolve into a bunch of fart jokes. That would make it a more valuable contribution to the forum. ---
**Author:** ![Snark\_Hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snark\_Hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snark_Hunter)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/313 "2015-10-29T12:23:38Z")
I would love to hear the Teeming Millions’ experience with the basic signals listed in post #1. 1. For atheists who absolutely believe that there is no God: a) Recite your usual litanies that you trot out in the guise of logic, within your minds (i.e., “There is no God; if God exists he must be insane;” etc.). b) Watch your body while doing so;. c) Now recite something that you firmly believe is good while watching your signals; d) Report back here with your findings. Hypothesis 1: you should get a signal on your left leg or arm while testing letter a) above, if and only if you really believe in your heart that there is no God, and are humble with an open mind without pride and having real intent to know the truth (God knows when you’re faking and He resists the proud). 1. For Christians who believe the extra-biblical Nicene Creed: a) Recite the Creed within your minds; b) Watch your body while doing so; c) Follow the remaining steps in #1 above. Hypothesis 2: you should also get a signal on your left leg or arm, if and only if you really believe this Creed in your hearts, according to the conditions listed in Hypothesis 1 above, in addition to believing in Christ with faith that He will answer you in His own time, in His own way. Please report back with your findings. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOmens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@GoodOmens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOmens)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/314 "2015-10-29T13:33:39Z")
I can report exactly nothing of the sort happened. My left knee hurts, but it always hurts. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/315 "2015-10-29T13:42:54Z")
> [@GoodOmens](#): > > I can report exactly nothing of the sort happened. My left knee hurts, but it always hurts. Blasphemer!! ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/316 "2015-11-03T21:47:11Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > I would love to hear the Teeming Millions’ experience with the basic signals listed in post #1. > > 1. For atheists who absolutely believe that there is no God: > a) Recite your usual litanies that you trot out in the guise of logic, within your minds (i.e., “There is no God; if God exists he must be insane;” etc.). > b) Watch your body while doing so;. > c) Now recite something that you firmly believe is good while watching your signals; > d) Report back here with your findings. > > Hypothesis 1: you should get a signal on your left leg or arm while testing letter a) above, if and only if you really believe in your heart that there is no God, and are > humble with an open mind without pride and having real intent to know the truth (God knows when you’re faking and He resists the proud). I’m an atheist who considers the existence of gods to be extremely improbable, and who absolutely believes that there is no YWYH / Jehovah / Elohim deity. Is that close enough? I did (a) thru (c). My body signals were the same while reciting “God is not real, and Joseph Smith was a poopyface” as they were while reciting “I love my children”. My right knee is a little sore. It’s been tender for the last hour or so. I think I tore a meniscus 11 years ago, so the pain comes and goes. I’ve got mild itches above both eyebrows, but they go away for a minute if I scratch them. I need to pee. The stigmata (_stigmatum_? what’s the singular for _stigmata_?) on my right palm is not itching at the moment. Does this confirm or disconfirm your hypothesis? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/317 "2015-11-03T23:17:16Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > . . . 1. For atheists who absolutely believe that there is no God: > a) Recite your usual litanies that you trot out in the guise of logic, within your minds (i.e., “There is no God; if God exists he must be insane;” etc.). > b) Watch your body while doing so;. > c) Now recite something that you firmly believe is good while watching your signals; > d) Report back here with your findings. . . . Nothin’. My body isn’t the seat of my moral faculties. No muscular twitches, no scalp tingles, no massive coronary, nothin’. Frankly, seems like a really stupid experiment. Suppose my left great toe twitched slightly. This would prove…what? God speaks directly to my toe? Some God. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/318 "2015-11-03T23:29:45Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > (God knows when you’re faking and He resists the proud). I love this part. Sounds like god has a bit of an attitude. “Resist me Lord at your own risk,” that’s what I would say. ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/319 "2015-11-04T00:17:07Z")
> [@Snark\_Hunter](#): > > … > a) Recite your usual litanies that you trot out in the guise of logic, > … > and are humble with an open mind without pride and having real intent to know the truth … Sure sounds like you’re the epitome of open-mindedness. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015/320 "2015-11-04T02:01:18Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > Sure sounds like you’re the epitome of open-mindedness. Perhaps he was inspired by a leg cramp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/body-signals-and-the-fall-of-radical-islam/734015.md?page=17)