# Boeing 777 loses power; glides to a safe landing **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 17, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917 "2008-01-17T19:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/81 "2008-01-19T02:10:22Z")
[UA flight 232](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232) remains the ultimate tale of catastrophic control failure and nerves of steel, which allowed over half the passengers to survive what had always been considered an unsurvivable situation. Props to the Boeing 777 crew and all that, but I’ll always be in awe of the flight crew on 232. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/82 "2008-01-19T02:54:59Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Say [what?](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main.jhtml?xml=/travel/2008/01/18/etheath718.xml) I’m confused. [/QUOTE] You’re overthinking it. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/83 "2008-01-19T03:04:55Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] Props to the Boeing 777 crew and all that, but I’ll always be in awe of the flight crew on 232. [/QUOTE] The thing about that story that most astonished me was some of the on air banter between ATCs and the cockpit: (paraphrasing from memory) Ground: You are cleared to land on any runway. UA 232: Oh, you’re going to be picky and insist on a runway? Which stuck in my mind when I was reading in the aftermath that the accident review crews had tried to duplicate the flight crew’s accomplishment in simulators, and the best of the simulator crews couldn’t get within miles of the airport at all. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/84 "2008-01-19T04:30:07Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] the best of the simulator crews couldn’t get within miles of the airport at all. [/QUOTE] One of the links mentioned that the passenger engineer who assisted the crew had heard of the same model aircraft crashing in Japan using only engines for control and had practiced that situation in a company simulator. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/85 "2008-01-19T08:28:18Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] [UA flight 232](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232) remains the ultimate tale of catastrophic control failure and nerves of steel, which allowed over half the passengers to survive what had always been considered an unsurvivable situation. Props to the Boeing 777 crew and all that, but I’ll always be in awe of the flight crew on 232. [/QUOTE] Yep, UA232 is one amazing story. As far as landings go, my favorites are the crazy ones that turn out OK. Hong Kong’s now-closed Kai Tak Airport was famous for them. Flying into Kai Tak was the one time i’ve ever really been scared on a plane. I remember looking out my window as the plane made its final turn before landing, and thinking how close the top of those buildings were. Here’s a couple of my favorite Kai Tak videos: [Alitalia MD-11](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1w4KEnkWIg) [Korean Air 747](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTl1nQ9bO1Y) And here’s one that gives some idea of how little time the pilots had to straighten the plane after the final turn: [Cathay Pacific 747](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGnokcAu0c4) ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/86 "2008-01-19T11:24:08Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Flying into Kai Tak was the one time i’ve ever really been scared on a plane. [/QUOTE] I stamped my foot on the floor looking for the brake when I clearly saw people having their dinner in apartments at my eye level. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/87 "2008-01-19T12:07:57Z")
Landing at Funchal on the island of Madeira is quite exciting. The airport is built on a sort of shelf on the island’s edge. The normal approach is parallel to the runway, then a sharp 180 degree turn (just missing a large hill) which lines the plane up with the runway. Image [here](http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/f003301/perspec_pista_ne.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Vorlon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/88 "2008-01-19T13:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=Rayne Man] Landing at Funchal on the island of Madeira is quite exciting. The airport is built on a sort of shelf on the island’s edge. The normal approach is parallel to the runway, then a sharp 180 degree turn (just missing a large hill) which lines the plane up with the runway. Image [here](http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/f003301/perspec_pista_ne.jpg) [/QUOTE] Where is the arresting gear? Now I know what they do with the flight decks of decommisioned carriers… ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/89 "2008-01-19T13:46:43Z")
[QUOTE=The Vorlon] Where is the arresting gear? Now I know what they do with the flight decks of decommisioned carriers… [/QUOTE] The part of the runway on concrete piles is a modern extension. Just image trying to land on the much shorter original section. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/90 "2008-01-19T15:25:44Z")
[The pilot makes me proud to be British](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpRFDtAYbz4). [QUOTE=mhendo] As far as landings go, my favorites are the crazy ones that turn out OK. Hong Kong’s now-closed Kai Tak Airport was famous for them. [/QUOTE] I miss Kai Tak. I flew into it about 30 times. It was so amazingly ferocious that all I could really do was laugh, each time. Memorable Kai Tak experiences: The first time: nobody warned me! Dear God what a shock. Straight towards a mountainside with a checkerboard on it for the pilot to line up with, then what felt like a 2G, 45 degree turn, then flattening out, only to find us [hurtling down a city street](http://www.planet-wissen.de/pics/IEPics/top_flughafen_kai_tak.jpg) in a 737, below the apartment block roof level, glimpsing people through the windows, eating noodles and watching TV. Living near the airport: my first day in an apartment in To Kwa Wan, the windows shaking and plates rattling. I thought it was a series of mini earthquakes. Eventually I took the elevator up to the roof to see what the hell was going on, and saw a Cathay Pacific tailfin go sailing past. Climbing up to the checkerboard on the hillside: watching the planes barrel down right at you, then make a [massive starboard bank](http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/9695/images/korean.jpg). The 747 that fell off the runway: a China Airlines pilot touched down too far down the runway and the plane dropped off the end [into the harbour](http://www.rob.com/pic/747/kai_tak_F1000012_JPG_24788.sized.jpg). One killed (knowing Chinese passengers like I now do, s/he was probably already out of his/her seat, grabbing hand luggage from the overhead bins), and some minor injuries. I could see it from my office window. They couldn’t remove the plane from the harbour for about a week, so it was just floating there for new arrivals to see, next to a “WELCOME TO HONG KONG” sign. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/91 "2008-01-20T01:21:15Z")
While we’re talking fun approaches where losing a control input once you’re committed would suck harder than normal: [Tocontin Airport, Tegucigalpa](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHmrcCfdZFM&feature=related), Honduras. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/92 "2008-01-20T01:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=JRDelirious] While we’re talking fun approaches where losing a control input once you’re committed would suck harder than normal: [Tocontin Airport, Tegucigalpa](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHmrcCfdZFM&feature=related), Honduras. [/QUOTE] THAT is amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/93 "2008-01-20T01:38:17Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Say [what?](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/main.jhtml?xml=/travel/2008/01/18/etheath718.xml) I’m confused. [/QUOTE] WHOOSH! 😃 I should have said “Bah Da BOOM” afterward. As for Kai Tak Airport, I can’t say that I ever found it all that armrest-gripping. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/94 "2008-01-20T01:58:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Why did both engines fail? The competing theories > > Bird strike: A flock would have to have struck and stopped both engines. But there is no evidence this happened. Verdict: implausible > > Pilot error: A mistake by those flying the plane must always be considered by air traffic investigators. But it is unlikely that BA would have allowed the pilots to be hailed as heroes if there were any suspicion that they had made a mistake. Verdict: highly unlikely > > Running out of fuel: Last week pilots’ internet forums buzzed with speculation that the plane had run out of fuel. But the interim accident report said that “a significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft”, suggesting the plane was not short of fuel. Verdict: very unlikely > > Fuel contamination: Reports yesterday suggested that investigators were focusing on the possibility that the plane’s kerosene fuel had been contaminated with water. A poor fuel mix has, however, never been held responsible for an air crash and one would expect other planes that were refuelled in Beijing to have been affected as well. No such problems have been reported. Verdict: unlikely > > Fuel management problem: Fuel is transferred as required between various tanks in the wings and centre of large planes. In one incident, two engines on an Airbus 340 failed, even though the plane had plenty of fuel, because the transfer system malfunctioned. But it is unlikely to happen to both engines at the same time. Verdict: possible, but unlikely > > Computer glitch:This happened with a Malaysian Airlines 777 and a former 777 captain told The Sunday Times that for both engines to fail at the same time “it has got to be commanded” - ie, it was computer error in controlling the engines. Verdict: possible and many experts’ prime concern Brief exerpt from a much more detailed (and fascinating) article here: [Latest news & breaking headlines | The Times and The Sunday Times](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3216746.ece) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/95 "2008-01-20T02:03:11Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] The 747 that fell off the runway: a China Airlines pilot touched down too far down the runway and the plane dropped off the end [into the harbour](http://www.rob.com/pic/747/kai_tak_F1000012_JPG_24788.sized.jpg). One killed (knowing Chinese passengers like I now do, s/he was probably already out of his/her seat, grabbing hand luggage from the overhead bins), and some minor injuries. I could see it from my office window. They couldn’t remove the plane from the harbour for about a week, so it was just floating there for new arrivals to see, next to a “WELCOME TO HONG KONG” sign. [/QUOTE] I have a friend who used to fly 747s - he described flying into Hong Kong shortly after this incident. He said a demolition team blew the tail off the plane not long after it went into the water - apparently it was considered a hazard to other aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/96 "2008-01-20T02:34:35Z")
But what about that other plane, the Qantas 747 in the story I linked to above. Specifically, what is it about planes suddenly losing power all of a sudden? Two in as many weeks is a bit odd. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/97 "2008-01-20T03:08:03Z")
Aha! I found[here](http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1961) the reported cause of the Qantas power failure: “Water entering the generator control unit.” ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/98 "2008-01-20T03:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] But what about that other plane, the Qantas 747 in the story I linked to above. Specifically, what is it about planes suddenly losing power all of a sudden? Two in as many weeks is a bit odd. [/QUOTE] The Qantas flight lost electrical power, the engines where still running. This 777 lost power on its engines, or at least they couldn`t control them. Not quite the same. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/99 "2008-01-20T12:59:39Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] But what about that other plane, the Qantas 747 in the story I linked to above. Specifically, what is it about planes suddenly losing power all of a sudden? Two in as many weeks is a bit odd. [/QUOTE] Apart from the word “power” the two incidents have nothing in common. The Qantas aircraft lost electrical power. Shouldn’t happen but not really a big deal as there are alternate power sources including the batteries and a ram air emergency generator. As an idea of the kind of redundancy aircraft have, our Dash 8s have four separate electrical power sources. It can lose three out of four and still be ok. It can then lose the fourth one and still run on batteries for 30 mins or so. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/100 "2008-01-20T17:18:08Z")
Personally I rather think that the flight crew rather let the side down. YES they made a successful crash landing without any casualties BUT! They’re supposed to British dammit and yet some of the passengers reported afterwards,and of this there can be no doubt,the Captain looked a little pale. Huh calls himself a Brit does he? He should be ashamed of himself. I’m sorry but I’m just too angry to go on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917.md?page=6)