# Boeing 777 loses power; glides to a safe landing **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 17, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917 "2008-01-17T19:27:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/121 "2008-04-03T13:27:36Z")
Bump. Have there been any updates released on the cause of this accident? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/122 "2008-04-03T14:16:36Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] Ah, I see. I did actually think “flight crew of two” meant that they flew everywhere with just two officers on board, but on second thought that does sound rather unlikely :smack: [/QUOTE] Modern airliners are designed to be flown by two crew. The old crew functions of flight engineer, navigator, and radio operator have been gradually replaced by technology. Having said that, flight and duty limitations restrict the number of hours a pilot can work in a day and some airliners have an endurance that exceeds those limitations or the company may want to fly multiple sectors with the one crew. The regulations vary from country to country and even among individual companies, but generally speaking, the flight and duty limitations can be extended by providing extra crew members. Sometimes just one, or some countries may require a complete relief crew. Therefore you will normally have just two pilots on short flights and three or more on long international flights. I believe [this is the latest information](http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publications/special_bulletins/s1_2008 ___boeing_777_236_er__ g_ymmm.cfm). The gist of it is that there was plenty of fuel on board, located in suitable tanks and that the fuel had not frozen enroute. There was some damage to the fuel pumps. Here is the final paragraph from the report: > [@](#): > > Investigations are now underway in an attempt to > replicate the damage seen to the engine high pressure > fuel pumps, and to match this to the data recorded on the > accident flight. In addition, comprehensive examination > and analysis is to be conducted on the entire aircraft and > engine fuel system; including the modelling of fuel flows > taking account of the environmental and aerodynamic > effects. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/123 "2008-04-03T15:14:45Z")
I wonder how significant the debris found in the fuel tanks will turn out to be? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/124 "2008-04-03T16:06:05Z")
I wonder if this crash was the wakeup call that forced United Airlines to ground their entire fleet of 777s for safety inspections this week? And then there’s the story on how Southwest failed its safety inspections, pressured the FAA inspectors to look the other way but didn’t (but their superiors apparently did). ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/125 "2008-04-03T17:04:04Z")
Thanks **Death Ray**. Very interesting reading. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/126 "2008-04-03T18:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=Duckster] I wonder if this crash was the wakeup call that forced United Airlines to ground their entire fleet of 777s for safety inspections this week? And then there’s the story on how Southwest failed its safety inspections, pressured the FAA inspectors to look the other way but didn’t (but their superiors apparently did). [/QUOTE] No. The United grounding is related to missing inspections from fire-suppression systems, not fuel problems. [http://www.reuters.com/article/idUKN0236553820080403](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUKN0236553820080403) ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/127 "2008-04-03T19:44:12Z")
[QUOTE=threemae] The United grounding is related to missing inspections from fire-suppression systems, [/QUOTE] Well, I certainly would consider ‘Not Crashing’ a fire suppression system! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/128 "2008-04-03T19:49:29Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Ever heard of the [Gimli Glider](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_glider)? Heck, [Air Transat Flight 236](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Transat_Flight_236) lost engine power(but not the electronics) over the Atlantic ocean and managed to glide and land safely. [/QUOTE] That was the first thing I thought of – the Gimli Glider. You beat me to it. :eek: The folks on the Boeing 777 probably needed a collective change of pants. I would have. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/129 "2008-04-03T20:16:11Z")
[QUOTE=lizardling] That was the first thing I thought of – the Gimli Glider. You beat me to it. :eek: The folks on the Boeing 777 probably needed a collective change of pants. I would have. :eek: [/QUOTE] **Rysto** beat you to it by 2 months, 2 weeks and some odd days. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/130 "2008-04-03T20:20:26Z")
[QUOTE=Fir na tine] **Rysto** beat you to it by 2 months, 2 weeks and some odd days. [/QUOTE] :smack: That’ll teach me to not check the dates. 😛 Nevah mind. /Emily Litella ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/131 "2008-04-04T08:17:05Z")
[QUOTE=Fir na tine] Thanks **Death Ray**. Very interesting reading. [/QUOTE] No worries. I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/132 "2008-04-04T20:57:44Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] Personally I rather think that the flight crew rather let the side down. YES they made a successful crash landing without any casualties BUT! They’re supposed to British dammit and yet some of the passengers reported afterwards,and of this there can be no doubt,the Captain looked a little pale. Huh calls himself a Brit does he? He should be ashamed of himself. I’m sorry but I’m just too angry to go on. [/QUOTE] Seeing as someone already resurrected this thread– When I saw this pilot on TV speaking to the press, to my American ears he had the poshest accent I’ve ever heard this side of the Windsor family. My question for the English people here is, is my assessment accurate or do you think the accent is an affectation on his part? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/133 "2008-04-04T21:55:23Z")
Lots of people speak like that. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/134 "2008-04-16T13:00:16Z")
Heard the following from a guy in the aircraft industry, who says it comes from someone close to the investigation: Investigators are now looking at the possibility that the problem was caused by a cellphone jammer operating on the ground near the final approach path. Some goverment official was traveling in a motorcade and it has become standard practice in such cases to carry a cellphone jammer with an effective range of a few hundred yards, to address the problem of a cellphone-triggered bomb. The 777’s FADEC (full-authority digital engine control) may have been influenced by this jamming signal, causing the engines to go to idle power. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/135 "2008-04-16T13:09:24Z")
[QUOTE=Xema] Heard the following from a guy in the aircraft industry, who says it comes from someone close to the investigation: Investigators are now looking at the possibility that the problem was caused by a cellphone jammer operating on the ground near the final approach path. Some goverment official was traveling in a motorcade and it has become standard practice in such cases to carry a cellphone jammer with an effective range of a few hundred yards, to address the problem of a cellphone-triggered bomb. The 777’s FADEC (full-authority digital engine control) may have been influenced by this jamming signal, causing the engines to go to idle power. [/QUOTE] I think we are into urban-myth territory here :- [Hoax-Slayer](http://www.hoax-slayer.com/81-15.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/136 "2008-04-16T13:33:04Z")
[QUOTE=Rayne Man] I think we are into urban-myth territory here :- [Hoax-Slayer](http://www.hoax-slayer.com/81-15.shtml) [/QUOTE] I note that your link says the validity of this not yet known and being investigated - which is what I was told. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/137 "2008-04-16T13:38:50Z")
The problem with that is that it’s also accurate to say that people spent years investigating the various conspiracy theory assassination theories about Diana’s death. Sometimes fruitbats come up with ideas that catch on, and have to be debunked, no matter how unrealistic they might appear to people involved in the investigation. I’d be a lot more sympathetic to the theory if Hoax-Slayer weren’t saying that the only public figure associated with it is the woman who wrote this [book](http://www.amazon.com/Worse-Than-Global-Warming-Technology/dp/1884820867). I cannot take seriously anyone making any kind of doomsday on schedule predictions. Especially when they’re claiming to support their theory by alluding to how their scenario was what destroyed Atlantis. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/138 "2008-04-16T13:40:04Z")
[QUOTE=Xema] Investigators are now looking at the possibility that the problem was caused by a cellphone jammer operating on the ground near the final approach path. [/quote] Cellphone jammers are apparently widely used in Iraq and Afghanistan for this purpose. > [@](#): > > Some goverment official was traveling in a motorcade That would be our beloved Prime Minister, Bottler Brown. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/139 "2008-04-16T16:14:37Z")
[QUOTE=Xema] Heard the following from a guy in the aircraft industry, who says it comes from someone close to the investigation: Investigators are now looking at the possibility that the problem was caused by a cellphone jammer operating on the ground near the final approach path. Some goverment official was traveling in a motorcade and it has become standard practice in such cases to carry a cellphone jammer with an effective range of a few hundred yards, to address the problem of a cellphone-triggered bomb. The 777’s FADEC (full-authority digital engine control) may have been influenced by this jamming signal, causing the engines to go to idle power. [/QUOTE] Is there someone from Boeing who can comment on this possibility? I’ve got to assume that part of aircraft environmentals involve EMC/EMI testing. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917/140 "2008-04-17T02:37:40Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Cellphone jammers are apparently widely used in Iraq and Afghanistan for this purpose. [/QUOTE] In the deep South of Thailand, too, by the military. We’ve had a Muslim insurrection in the Muslim-majority provinces near Malaysia for three years now, with more than 3000 dead. Cellphone-triggered bombs are a favorite. The army will deploy these jammers if one bomb has gone off, because there’s often a second one waiting for the response to the first one to show up. But I have no idea of the mechanics involved or if this would be the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-777-loses-power-glides-to-a-safe-landing/433917.md?page=6)