# Boeing internal emails during the certification process of the 737 MAX: Ouch! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 10, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215 "2020-01-10T10:43:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215/1 "2020-01-10T10:43:50Z")
Internal emails from Boeing that were sent among Boeing employees during the certification process of the 737 MAX have been made public. The only thing I can say is: “OUCH”. Some choice quotes: “This airplane is designed by clowns, who are in turn supervised by monkeys.” “I still haven’t been forgiven by God for the covering up I did last year.” Other messages appear to be denigrating towards the FAA. The whole thing can be read about here: > **[Boeing Employees Mocked F.A.A. and ‘Clowns’ Who Designed 737 Max (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messages.html)** > > The company expressed regret at the embarrassing communications it sent to investigators on Thursday, which included a comment that “this airplane is designed by clowns, who are in turn supervised by monkeys.” (I don’t know whether you need to pay or not to read it - I think there is a number of free articles you can read per month; I was able to read it). Sooooooo… egg in the face much? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215/2 "2020-01-10T10:50:35Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Sooooooo… egg in the face much? Boeing and its supporters spent a lot of time and effort trying to blame the crash on (the very conviniently non white) pilots. They even had a massive article in the NYT last year. So, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215/3 "2020-01-10T12:00:49Z")
[https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdocument%2F442346616%2FBoeing-Employee-Emails-re-Boeing-737-Max-Simulator-1-of-3&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2020%2F1%2F9%2F21059420%2Fboeing-employees-messages-737-max-investigation-simulator-crash%3FsubId1%3Dxid%3Afr1578657281450agc&xcust=xid:fr1578657281450agc](https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdocument%2F442346616%2FBoeing-Employee-Emails-re-Boeing-737-Max-Simulator-1-of-3&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2020%2F1%2F9%2F21059420%2Fboeing-employees-messages-737-max-investigation-simulator-crash%3FsubId1%3Dxid%3Afr1578657281450agc&xcust=xid:fr1578657281450agc) [https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdocument%2F442346573%2FBoeing-Employee-Emails-re-Boeing-737-Max-Simulator-2-of-3&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2020%2F1%2F9%2F21059420%2Fboeing-employees-messages-737-max-investigation-simulator-crash%3FsubId1%3Dxid%3Afr1578657281450ffh&xcust=xid:fr1578657281450ffh](https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdocument%2F442346573%2FBoeing-Employee-Emails-re-Boeing-737-Max-Simulator-2-of-3&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2020%2F1%2F9%2F21059420%2Fboeing-employees-messages-737-max-investigation-simulator-crash%3FsubId1%3Dxid%3Afr1578657281450ffh&xcust=xid:fr1578657281450ffh) [https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdocument%2F442346585%2FBoeing-Employee-Emails-re-Boeing-737-Max-Simulator-3-of-3&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2020%2F1%2F9%2F21059420%2Fboeing-employees-messages-737-max-investigation-simulator-crash%3FsubId1%3Dxid%3Afr1578657281450jii&xcust=xid:fr1578657281450jii](https://go.redirectingat.com/?id=66960X1514734&xs=1&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scribd.com%2Fdocument%2F442346585%2FBoeing-Employee-Emails-re-Boeing-737-Max-Simulator-3-of-3&referrer=theverge.com&sref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2020%2F1%2F9%2F21059420%2Fboeing-employees-messages-737-max-investigation-simulator-crash%3FsubId1%3Dxid%3Afr1578657281450jii&xcust=xid:fr1578657281450jii) All of the emails, messages, etc, can be downloaded at these links if you are interested. I have read through all of the first bunch and it doesn’t paint a very good picture. A company trying desperately to fudge things so that simulator training is not required for their new jet. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215/4 "2020-01-10T12:08:20Z")
There is a lot of jargon and abbreviations in the documents that make it a difficult read at times. MCAS itself has come up rarely. They were dealing with multiple other issues that threatened their ability to have a “level b” (computer based training) differences course for NG pilots to convert to the MAX. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215/5 "2020-01-10T18:16:35Z")
Boeing’s response certainly doesn’t look good. > [@](#): > > We regret the content of these communications, and apologize to the F.A.A., Congress, our airline customers and to the flying public for them. The language used in these communications, and some of the sentiments they express, are inconsistent with Boeing values, and the company is taking appropriate action in response. This will ultimately include disciplinary or other personnel action, once the necessary reviews are completed. Let’s focus on the messages and the people who shouldn’t have put that stuff in writing. Please ignore the underlying problems that prompted those messages, that’s not important. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215/6 "2020-01-10T18:18:58Z")
I think they already setting the civil claims with the passengers on those two flights, but if they hadn’t, this stuff would have _really_ hurt their case. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-internal-emails-during-the-certification-process-of-the-737-max-ouch/846215/7 "2020-01-10T18:45:18Z")
Those of us in the software industry are very familiar with issues like this. Cost cutting pressure leads to “ship it first, we’ll fix it later” which then leads to “there’s not enough money to do it right the first time but plenty to do it over again later”. I think I butchered that last saying, but maybe you get the gist. It’s pretty endemic, but extremely sad and horrifying when it happens in products that people’s lives depend on. Also, and yes I’m cynical, but I can smell the scape-goating that’s about to happen. It’s a shame that upper management in companies never listen to the engineers when it comes to quality and safety.