# Boeing software fix for 737 Max **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626 "2019-03-27T19:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![txjim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f07891/32.png) [@txjim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txjim)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/161 "2020-01-06T17:36:27Z")
I have not seen specifics but there are several possibilities. - They could have revisited wiring system analysis using a tool such as Capital Integrator and found signal integrity/crosstalk issues. Wiring harnesses are part of the A-kit of aircraft and are more complicated than many people can imagine. A380 launch delays can be attributed to wiring design flaws. - The brief report I saw mentioned possible shorts. It’s possible they ran additional model simulation using a tool such as ANSYS and found areas where the harness was not properly constrained. Could be wrong, but it’s most likely that they found something that was too close to a limit for comfort rather than an outright flaw. (don’t work for Boeing but have ample experience in this area) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/162 "2020-01-10T09:16:29Z")
[Boeing Employees Mocked F.A.A. and ‘Clowns’ Who Designed 737 Max](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messages.html) > [@](#): > > “This airplane is designed by clowns, who are in turn supervised by monkeys.” > > “I still haven’t been forgiven by God for the covering up I did last year,” one of the employees said in messages from 2018, apparently in reference to interactions with the Federal Aviation Administration. > > “Would you put your family on a Max simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn’t,” one employee said to a colleague in another exchange from 2018, before the first crash. “No,” the colleague responded. > > “I basically lied to the regulators (unknowingly),” the pilot, Mark Forkner, said to his colleague, Patrik Gustavsson. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/163 "2020-01-10T16:57:57Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Will the company’s engineers have access to the full set of data from the crashed plane’s black-box (and any relevant telemetry from other sources)? > > I am wondering if they can replicate the exact set of variables the pilots in the fatal crash encountered and then run them on the new software. That would be the ultimate reassurance. Sure they can. The plane has engines which are too big for the old design of everything else, and make the plane unstable in flight. A human would find it very difficult to adjust for that, so software was coded to make automatic adjustments. These adjustments depended upon sensors which malfunctioned, so the software kept doing the wrong thing. There was a light bulb that Boeing was charging extra for which alerts when there is a problem with those sensors. I hope to god that light bulb is now complementary. So in the simulator you add a light bulb to alert the test pilot the simulation is now simulating malfunctioning sensors. Then I guess he needs to pretend he needs to consult a document to figure out how to turn off those automated adjustments, to simulate someone who believed it was “just like the old plane, no new training required”, and didn’t know any of the above. Then he needs to make human adjustments to the simulated bad flight characteristics that were so difficult they necessitated the software in the first place. After many similated flights where he needs to make adjustments a robot is really needed to do, he might get good enough at it not to crash the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/164 "2020-01-10T17:11:55Z")
sounds like they need to start over from scratch for the software. But I doubt that happens due to expense. Sometimes software has so many patches it ends up worse than the start, I know from personal experience. You end up fixing the fixes. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/165 "2020-01-10T17:19:24Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > sounds like they need to start over from scratch for the software. But I doubt that happens due to expense. Sometimes software has so many patches it ends up worse than the start, I know from personal experience. You end up fixing the fixes. It’s not a software problem, it is a hardware problem. But I think you knew that and were being sarcastic. The only real solution is to say: “Look, it’s safety profile isn’t like the old 737’s, it’s safety profile is more like that of a helicopter, where if certain somethings go wrong, no piloting skill can be expected to help”. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/166 "2021-10-14T23:53:50Z")
# The title of the (non-paywalled) link below says it all [https://wapo.st/3aEqTVa](https://wapo.st/3aEqTVa) ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/167 "2021-10-15T00:06:06Z")
> [@Chad E. Meacham](#): > > In an attempt to save Boeing money, Forkner allegedly withheld critical information from regulators. How much money did they save? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/168 "2021-10-15T03:18:36Z")
From the article: > In a 2016 email, Forkner told an FAA official he would be “jedi-mind tricking regulators” around the world into accepting a lower level of training for pilots. Someone does not get to having that approach to their work if those around him do not nurture and even reward that sort of attitude. Time to point some fingers, Forkner. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2021, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626/169 "2021-10-16T05:36:44Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Someone does not get to having that approach to their work if those around him do not nurture and even reward that sort of attitude. Time to point some fingers, Forkner. From the article: > [@](#): > > Boeing declined to comment Thursday on Forkner’s indictment or the company’s role in creating the environment that provided the context for Forkner’s alleged fraud. Yeah, I’m sure it’s being looked at but if there is evidence that he was a willing participant then he needs to be held accountable for that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-software-fix-for-737-max/831626.md?page=8)