# Boeing vs Apple - Can you explain the current trend? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 29, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162 "2020-01-29T13:59:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/1 "2020-01-29T13:59:27Z")
While reading the news today, I see that Boeing has posted its first annual loss in two decades while Apple has posted its highest revenues ever. > **[Boeing posts first annual loss in more than two decades as 737 Max crisis...](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/boeing-ba-earnings-q4-2019.html)** > > Boeing said its costs from the 737 Max debacle would nearly double from a previous forecast to close to $19 billion. > **[Apple delivers best-ever quarter, powered by iPhones, services](https://news.yahoo.com/apple-delivers-best-ever-quarter-powered-iphones-services-223856507.html)** > > Apple on Tuesday posted record results for the final three months of last year delivered by gains in iPhone sales even as the company transitions to digital services and wearables. Striking a somber tone on an earnings call, chief executive Tim Cook... Can this be explained simply by saying that more and more … people prefer to call someone instead of going to see them? Of course, I’m being somewhat facetious and trying to have a little fun. But it seems to me these two events really do evidence some of the serious trends in our world today. Would anyone care to explain in a way that is more reasonable than my attempt? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/2 "2020-01-29T14:20:28Z")
Well, ummm… Maybe the fact that Boeing made a gargantuan design blunder which killed a lot of people and indefinitely grounded an entire line of new planes could explain their loss. And, Apple makes excellent, well-designed products that people want to use. And people aren’t worried that using them will result in fiery death. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/3 "2020-01-29T14:32:05Z")
Please don’t introduce facts into this discussion. It may give people the wrong ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/4 "2020-01-29T14:49:56Z")
New York Times headline today “Boeing Expects 737 Max Costs Will Surpass $18 Billion”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/5 "2020-01-29T15:13:03Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Can this be explained simply by saying that more and more … people prefer to call someone instead of going to see them? Even if you somehow ignore the 737 MAX problem, which explains the entire disparity, air traffic is increasing at a faster pace than road traffic in the US. I haven’t looked at the worldwide numbers, but I suspect it’s true elsewhere. > **[U.S. Passenger-Miles | Bureau of Transportation Statistics](https://www.bts.gov/content/us-passenger-miles)** > > KEY: N = data do not exist; R = revised; U = data are not available. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/6 "2020-01-29T15:14:49Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Well, ummm… > Maybe the fact that Boeing made a gargantuan design blunder which killed a lot of people and indefinitely grounded an entire line of new planes could explain their loss. > And, Apple makes excellent, well-designed products that people want to use. And people aren’t worried that using them will result in fiery death. This. The 737 Max is Boeing’s best-selling product and there is a year-long backlog. But they can’t sell them until it is safe. > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Can this be explained simply by saying that more and more … people prefer to call someone instead of going to see them? You need to look at the people who use the aircraft, not the people who build them. Alaska Airlines proudly flies Boeing aircraft. [Alaska Air Reports Surging Profit and Plans to Hire Almost 2,800 this Year](https://www.aviationpros.com/airlines/news/21123268/alaska-air-reports-surging-profit-and-plans-to-hire-almost-2800-this-year). > [@](#): > > The carrier made $769 million in profit last year, up 76% from $437 million in 2018. > > Alaska said it plans to hire about 400 pilots — divided equally between Alaska and Horizon — as well as more than 300 flight attendants, more than 1,100 passenger-service agents, 450 ground-service agents and 90 maintenance technicians, plus various other positions. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/7 "2020-01-29T15:38:38Z")
Also… people don’t buy iPhones to make phone calls. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/8 "2020-01-29T15:46:02Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > And people aren’t worried that using them will result in fiery death. Ironicly enough, there _is_ a chance. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/9 "2020-01-29T16:41:21Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Well, ummm… > Maybe the fact that Boeing made a gargantuan design blunder which killed a lot of people and indefinitely grounded an entire line of new planes could explain their loss. > And, Apple makes excellent, well-designed products that people want to use. And people aren’t worried that using them will result in fiery death. This. I’m 95% certain that should we discover that the coronavirus is being spread by iPhone, Apple stocks will fall. (the other 5% of me thinks that they may rise because it means that Apple has figured out a way to do semi-stealth biological warfare and many, many people will want to get in on that shit.) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/10 "2020-01-29T16:50:56Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > I’m 95% certain that should we discover that the coronavirus is being spread by iPhone, Apple stocks will fall. That’s what we get for sending all the telephone sanitisers off on that doomed ark ship. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/11 "2020-01-29T17:31:59Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Ironicly enough, there _is_ a chance. Why did you drag Samsung into this thread? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/12 "2020-01-29T18:45:23Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Even if you somehow ignore the 737 MAX problem, which explains the entire disparity, air traffic is increasing at a faster pace than road traffic in the US. I haven’t looked at the worldwide numbers, but I suspect it’s true elsewhere. > > [https://www.bts.gov/content/us-passenger-miles](https://www.bts.gov/content/us-passenger-miles) How long then before we get the return of the super-jumbos? If the trend long-term and globally is towards more crowded skies and runways? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/13 "2020-01-29T19:29:56Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > How long then before we get the return of the super-jumbos? If the trend long-term and globally is towards more crowded skies and runways? Probably never. The trend is towards big but efficient plans that are flexible. These are two engine planes, like the 787 Dreamliner, the A330neo and the troubled 737 MAX. There just isn’t demand for the super jumbos and the massive logistical headaches that come with them. People want to fly directly from point A to B, using smaller airports and routes that don’t necessarily support flying 600 people in a single plane. > **[Like the dinosaurs, super-jumbo jets were displaced by smaller and more...](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-airbus-a380-jumbo-jet-20190214-story.html)** > > With seating for up to 800 passengers between two decks, Airbus’ A380 super-jumbo jet was envisioned in 2000 as a flagship aircraft for the European company, offering a luxurious experience for long-distance flights. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/14 "2020-01-29T19:38:02Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Can this be explained simply by saying that more and more … people prefer to call someone instead of going to see them? Nah, this is not evidence of any sort of ongoing existential weirdness in our world. If anything, it’s somewhat reassuring that the markets are reacting as they are to Boeing and Apple. Boeing is reeling in the midst of the 737MAX debacle, while Apple has huge smartphone market share in the US, and is steadily producing phones that sell very well, as well as tablets, etc… So it’s not surprising that people wouldn’t consider Boeing a good place to invest their money, and they’d consider Apple a good place. (which is what drives the prices for the most part). As a point of comparison, Airbus is experiencing a year of increasing stock values, and most of the smaller airliner companies aren’t tanking like Boeing is either. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/15 "2020-01-29T19:41:34Z")
On the other hand, [flight shaming](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/24/citi-flight-shaming-getting-traction-could-cost-airlines-billions.html) (blame/shame/guilt over environmental impact of airline flights) is a real thing, and may gain enough of a traction to affect airline revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/16 "2020-01-29T19:46:17Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > How long then before we get the return of the super-jumbos? If the trend long-term and globally is towards more crowded skies and runways? If there was a market for super-jumbos, Airbus wouldn’t have stopped making the A380. They spent billions developing it and then stopped after making only a few hundred. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/17 "2020-01-29T21:43:19Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > On the other hand, [flight shaming](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/24/citi-flight-shaming-getting-traction-could-cost-airlines-billions.html) (blame/shame/guilt over environmental impact of airline flights) is a real thing, and may gain enough of a traction to affect airline revenue. It may be a thing among the extremely woke but it’s a very small niche. In fact, among the very very woke, a person I know online was talking about spring break. Not only does it require an evil airplane, it’ll require a car trip to the airport to get the cheaper flight. And the warm weather destination has basically no transit so even more Ubers. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/18 "2020-01-29T23:06:32Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Can this be explained simply by saying that more and more … people prefer to call someone instead of going to see them? > > Of course, I’m being somewhat facetious and trying to have a little fun. But it seems to me these two events really do evidence some of the serious trends in our world today. Would anyone care to explain in a way that is more reasonable than my attempt? On top of what others have mentioned, [Apple is a monopoly.](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/05/app-makers-sue-apple-and-claim-it-uses-monopoly-power-to-charge-fees.html) If you want to talk about why they make tons and tons of profit, that’s why. The most important fact is that they have total control over the app store, and there’s minimal competition outside of the app store. So they can charge high fees and lock out developers who might compete with anything that they want to sell. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/19 "2020-01-29T23:26:53Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Why did you drag Samsung into this thread? It can happen to _anything_ with lithium batteries. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2020, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162/20 "2020-01-30T00:18:30Z")
As a Woke Dude™, I’m biking to Spring Break. Where I’ll be able to walk to bars and music venues. As an Apple stockholder, phones are only part of their revenue. Surprisingly enough, AirPods have done much better than anyone thought and contributed a lot to Q4 '19. As someone who spends as much time in Seattle as possible, I’m angry at Boeing for covering up so much for so long. It really does affect the greater Puget Sound area economy. And as a long-time lurker here, I’ve got to ask “Charlie, are you really as naive as you present yourself?” > [@](#): > > Can this be explained simply by saying that more and more … people prefer to call someone instead of going to see them? I think it’s obvious that the two products have nothing to do with each other. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeing-vs-apple-can-you-explain-the-current-trend/847162.md?page=2)