# Boeing's 787 problems return with Dreamliner fire in London **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 12, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347 "2013-07-12T19:19:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/1 "2013-07-12T19:19:14Z")
"Just when Boeing thought its Dreamliner problems were over, the company faced a fresh crisis Friday when an empty 787 caught fire on the runway at London’s Heathrow airport. No injuries were reported, and the cause of the fire isn’t yet clear. But the incident puts Boeing’s marquee 787 Dreamliner fleet back in the headlines after it was grounded earlier this year because of a fire risk associated with the planes’ batteries." > **[Boeing's 787 problems return with Dreamliner fire in London](https://money.cnn.com/2013/07/12/news/companies/boeing-dreamliner-fire/)** > > Boeing's 787 Dreamliner fleet was grounded earlier this year due to a fire risk associated with the planes' batteries. There was a thread several months ago about those battery problems: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=679352&highlight=dreamliner](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=679352&highlight=dreamliner) ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/2 "2013-07-12T19:23:03Z")
Your headline and the article are misleading. All we know is there was a fire aboard a 787. There is no evidence _right now_ that the fire is tied to earlier battery issues with the 787. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/3 "2013-07-12T19:58:47Z")
[this article](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324425204578601752534401168.html) claims the batteries are nowhere near the location of the fire. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/4 "2013-07-12T20:02:31Z")
OTOH, [this diagram](http://blogs-images.forbes.com/businessaviation/files/2013/03/787-Battery.jpg) (from [this article](http://blogs-images.forbes.com/businessaviation/files/2013/03/787-Battery.jpg)) says there _is_ a battery in the tail area, so WTF? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/5 "2013-07-12T20:07:34Z")
There is of course a reasonable possibility that there was a problem with Ethiopian Airlines maintenance or a similar problem. But if it is problem with Boeing (whether or not it was a battery problem) then a number of potential customers are going to start thinking that Boeing cut corners on design, testing or manufacturing and the wise thing to do is to let someone else be the guinea pig. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/6 "2013-07-12T20:12:19Z")
I was going to suggest that Ethiopian Airlines probably outsources the maintenance, but per [this webpage](http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/mro/), not only do they do their own maintenance, but they offer it to others. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/7 "2013-07-12T21:08:07Z")
Ironically, this very plane was used by Boeing executives to show media outlets how they’ve solved the battery problem. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/8 "2013-07-13T00:40:22Z")
NBC News is reporting the fire may have originated in the crew resting area at the back of the plane above the passenger compartment, nowhere near any batteries. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/9 "2013-07-13T01:55:56Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > NBC News is reporting the fire may have originated in the crew resting area at the back of the plane above the passenger compartment, nowhere near any batteries. Ah-ha! So the crew could have just been on a smoke break and dropped a match or something. Until we get more details, we shouldn’t assume it’s the fault of the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/10 "2013-07-13T02:54:37Z")
Considering the outlawing of smoking on aircraft now, manufacturers are probably not bothering with fire resistant carpeting, upholstery, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/11 "2013-07-13T02:58:05Z")
I don’t think so. Cigarette smokers were hardly the only cause of fires on board airplanes. (Look at what remains of Asiana Flight 214 as an example.) So I’m sure that plane manufacturers still emphasize fire-resistant materials. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/12 "2013-07-13T06:17:17Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > OTOH, [this diagram](http://blogs-images.forbes.com/businessaviation/files/2013/03/787-Battery.jpg) (from [this article](http://blogs-images.forbes.com/businessaviation/files/2013/03/787-Battery.jpg)) says there _is_ a battery in the tail area, so WTF? > > 😕 One is in the aft cargo hold, not the ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/13 "2013-07-13T06:50:09Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > NBC News is reporting the fire may have originated in the crew resting area at the back of the plane above the passenger compartment, nowhere near any batteries. [This article](http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2021380327_787heathrowxml.html) says Ethiopian doesn’t have rest areas on its 787s. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/14 "2013-07-13T07:21:46Z")
Isn’t the runway where planes take off and land? What’s an empty plane doing there? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/15 "2013-07-13T07:30:53Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Isn’t the runway where planes take off and land? What’s an empty plane doing there? It’s the only part of the airport journalists know how to write about, so planes go there when they’re feeling a little down and want some attention. (It [appears](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23298349) to have been in a normal parking area.) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/16 "2013-07-13T19:20:45Z")
"The UK’s Air Accidents Investigation Branch said the initial investigation was likely to take several days. It said it had found “extensive heat damage in the upper portion of the rear fuselage, a complex part of the aircraft”. “However, it is clear that this heat damage is remote from the area in which the aircraft main and APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) batteries are located and at this stage there is no evidence of a direct causal relationship.” > **[Batteries 'not linked' to 787 fire at Heathrow](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23302722)** > > There is no evidence of a direct link between the Boeing 787 Dreamliner's batteries and the fire at Heathrow Airport on Friday, an investigation finds. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/17 "2013-07-13T21:29:12Z")
I will fly on a 787 when the design has ten years of service under its livery. Too many new technologies in conjunction, coupled with the distributed manufacturing that helps mask problem areas, for me to believe there are no potentially lethal bugs left. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/18 "2013-07-13T22:35:18Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I will fly on a 787 when the design has ten years of service under its livery. Too many new technologies in conjunction, coupled with the distributed manufacturing that helps mask problem areas, for me to believe there are no potentially lethal bugs left. Kinda reminds you of Windows Vista, does’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/19 "2013-07-13T22:41:38Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > Kinda reminds you of Windows Vista, does’t it? I actually had very little trouble with Vista, even as an early adopter. I didn’t try to run it on marginal hardware, I didn’t try to upgrade a running installation with it and I didn’t have any major software that wasn’t Vista-ready. In any case, it wasn’t going to kill me with a literal bluescreen of death. When a 787’s fuselage delaminates at 32,000 feet because the Brits used one kind of glue and the French another, it’s a compatibility problem of a whole different order. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347/20 "2013-07-16T12:57:43Z")
“Investigators are examining an emergency transmitter as a possible cause or contributor to the fire that damaged a Boeing Co. 787…The emergency transmitter is designed to be activated in the event of a crash to help find the aircraft. It is powered by a small, internal lithium-manganese battery, a type that doesn’t have the history of volatility of lithium-ion batteries.” > **[Investigators Probe Boeing 787 Emergency Transmitter](https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578607910816833722)** > > Investigators are examining the emergency locator transmitter on a Boeing 787 as a potential cause or contributor to the fire that damaged an Ethiopian Airlines jet at Heathrow Airport Friday. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/boeings-787-problems-return-with-dreamliner-fire-in-london/663347.md?page=2)