# Bolduan spells "Baldwin"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 13, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733 "2022-01-13T16:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/21 "2022-01-14T13:47:05Z")
As an English chap, I reckon Americans pronounce the city of ‘Leicester’ much better than we do. You say ‘lei - sester’, we say ‘lester’. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/22 "2022-01-14T14:30:36Z")
If I were English, would I live in “Wesher County” (Westchester)? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/23 "2022-01-14T15:02:38Z")
Confusingly, I would say ‘West-chest-er’. (I remember Westchester from Rex Stout’s Nero Wolfe novels…) ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/24 "2022-01-14T15:20:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@Roger\_That](#): > > > > I’m trying to think of less probable spellings. > > On what planet is f-a-v-r-e pronounced f-a-r-v-e? North of the Border, “Calvillo” is pronounced “Calvee oh”. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/25 "2022-01-14T17:36:39Z")
How else would you pronounce it? Cal-vill-o? ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/26 "2022-01-14T18:53:42Z")
Presumably so. I can’t get “Calvee oh” out of it so “Cal vill o” makes the most sense. But then we don’t say “ka nife” for “knife” or “Sall mon” for “salmon” either. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/27 "2022-01-14T19:12:05Z")
The “ll” is technically another separate character in Spanish that’s pronounced more or less like a Y, and isn’t a double-L. So in Spanish, Calvillo has a K sound for the C, a short-A, a “ee” sound for the “i”, a “Y” for the ll, and a long O for the “o”. Kahl-vee-yo is probably the most accurate way I can devise short of the IPA pronunciation ( /kælˈviːjoʊ/). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/28 "2022-01-14T22:23:34Z")
I’m confused, as well. Do you say “tor-TILL-uh” for “tor-tee-uh”? And why do you say “north of the border”? That’s pretty much how it’s said south of the border. Maybe I’m just confused because Spanish is ubiquitous where I’m at, and (almost) everybody knows “ll” is a “y” sound in Spanish words. (Well, okay, depends on the accent. Could be something more like a “zh,” too.) And the example given (FARV vs FAV-r(eh)) is an example of something called metathesis, where two adjacent sounds get swapped (which is how “brid” became “bird.” or the whole “ask” vs “aks” thing.) ---
**Author:** ![Mallard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Mallard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mallard)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/29 "2022-01-14T23:12:42Z")
Instead of “north of the border” I should have said “in the great white north”. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/30 "2022-01-14T23:44:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Who is her for those of us not in your head? Too funny, I needed that. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/31 "2022-01-15T01:07:58Z")
> [@Mallard](#): > > Instead of “north of the border” I should have said “in the great white north”. You mean in Cannadda? How woulld a Canadian be llikelly to pronounce Calvillo? (a) In Quebec? (b) Other than in Quebec? I’d be incllined to pronounce it Cal-VIL-oh, pronouncing the ll as an American L, on the presumption that the name is Itallian rather than Spanish. Somehow it just doesn’t look Spanish to me. I know zillch about Itallian, but I’ve heard that the double-ll in Itallian is pronounced as the letter L. I knew a guy in Fort Llauderdalle (South Fllorida) named Patillo, who insisted it was pronounced Pa-TILL-oh, never Pa-TEE-yo. He said it was because the name was of Itallian origin, not Spanish. I think he just didn’t want anybody to think he was Cuban. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/32 "2022-01-15T07:19:48Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I knew a guy in Fort Llauderdalle (South Fllorida) named Patillo, who insisted it was pronounced Pa-TILL-oh, never Pa-TEE-yo. He said it was because the name was of Itallian origin, not Spanish. I think he just didn’t want anybody to think he was Cuban. And I knew a guy named Padillo, pronounced Pa-DEE-yo. Spanish origin. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/33 "2022-01-15T15:53:26Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I know zillch about Itallian, but I’ve heard that the double-ll in Itallian is pronounced as the letter L. It’s usually held a bit longer in Italian than a single L, but that’s correct. Here in Chicago (and now expanding elsewhere), there’s a local chain called “Portillo’s” which I like to sometimes jokingly to myself pronounce as “por-TEE-yos” instead of the correct “por-TILL-oh’s.” The name is Italian. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/34 "2022-01-15T16:09:52Z")
In the UK there’s a former politician turned TV presenter called Portillo. His father was a Spanish refugee from Franco, but it’s always pronounced English-phonetically rather than Spanish-style. For all that’s worth. And also for what it’s worth, I’d assumed “Bolduan” was also Spanish and pronounced “Bol+dwan” - not so far from both the French Baudoin and the English Baldwin. But if I’m wrong, I’d be interested to know how the owner of the name pronounces it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/35 "2022-01-15T16:40:58Z")
“Bolduan” looks like a Gaelic spelling. Gaelic does not have a “w” in their 18 letter alphabet, so they sometimes use “u” in its place (e.g., “uisge” for “whiskey”). The “o” sound without is like an English short “o” (as in “lot”), so that spelling looks reasonable. “Boldmhan” might also be pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/36 "2022-01-15T20:58:46Z")
When I was in 7th grade (circa 1964) in Los Angeles, there was a visibly Hispanic-looking kid in my English class, surnamed Llamas. The teacher was a Hispanic-ish person named Santos. They got into an argument one day, in class, over how Llamas should be pronounced. The teacher insisted it’s a Spanish name (which it is), and must be pronounced Yamas. The student insisted he was an Americanized American and it should be pronounced Lamas. Both of them ignored the bigger issue of having to go through life named after a camellid. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/37 "2022-01-15T21:11:13Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Both of them ignored the bigger issue of having to go through life named after a camellid. - That’s Mr. Kamel’s lot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/38 "2022-01-17T10:56:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m confused, as well. Do you say “tor-TILL-uh” for “tor-tee-uh”? I’m a bit confused, too. Don’t we all say “tor-tee-yuh”? The two Ls aren’t silent–otherwise it would be spelled tortía I assumed that @Mallard was saying that Calvillo is missing the “y” sound (IPA /j/), and that this doesn’t make sense to him. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/39 "2022-01-17T15:15:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’m a bit confused, too. Don’t we all say “tor-tee-yuh”? The two Ls aren’t silent–otherwise it would be spelled tortía For me, in English, tortilla would be tortia are pronounced the same. There’s an eliding glide (“y”) in there when I say “tortia.” Yes, it’s a “y” sound in Spanish, but phonetically spelling out the pronunciation for an English speaker, I didn’t think that “y” was necessary. For me, all “-ia” ending words are pronounced as “ee-yuh.” I guess it would have been clearer to write “tor-tee-yuh” or use IPA (where I would have included the /j/ sound.) I mean, note that I literally say “ll” is pronounced as “y” (or sometimes “zh”-ish, depending on the variety of Spanish) in the next sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2022, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733/40 "2022-01-21T08:11:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > For me, in English, tortilla would be tortia are pronounced the same. If I saw a word like “tortia” in English, I’d be inclined to pronounce it “torsha”, accent on the first syllable. Have you ever known anyone named Marcia? I dated one such once, and she pronounced it “Marsha”. How would you pronounce militia, minutia, inertia, dementia? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolduan-spells-baldwin/957733.md?page=3)