# Bolivia wins, USA loses **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 21, 2020, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478 "2020-10-21T09:22:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/41 "2021-01-16T21:34:49Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Do your own research beyond your own biased sites. Ha, there is no support for the OAS claims, I can link all kinds of sources. We can start with the Washington Post, an establishment USA paper who are keen workers in the manufacturing consent factory. Then move to Market Watch. Homer Simpson as OAS spokesman: The phrase “facilitated a coup” gets thrown around a lot these days… > **[Opinion | The OAS helped undermine, not restore, democracy in Bolivia](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/07/oas-helped-undermine-not-restore-democracy-bolivia/?outputType=amp)** > > It’s clear that the OAS acted in an unjustified and reckless manner after the election. > **[What the OAS Did to Bolivia](https://cepr.net/what-the-oas-did-to-bolivia/)** > > The Guardian See article on original site En español Bolivia has descended into a nightmare of political repression and racist state violence since the democratically elected government of Evo Morales was overthrown by the military on November 10.... > **[The OAS lied to the public about the Bolivian election and coup](https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/the-oas-lied-to-the-public-about-the-bolivian-election-and-coup-2019-11-19)** > > The Organization of America States lied about supposed irregularities in the Bolivian election. It’s not the first time the OAS has helped overturn a popular... [https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/515085-congress-should-investigate-oas-actions-in-bolivia?amp](https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/515085-congress-should-investigate-oas-actions-in-bolivia?amp) > **[What the OAS Did to Bolivia](https://cepr.net/what-the-oas-did-to-bolivia/)** > > The Guardian See article on original site En español Bolivia has descended into a nightmare of political repression and racist state violence since the democratically elected government of Evo Morales was overthrown by the military on November 10.... > **[The OAS Helped Facilitate Last Year’s Coup Against Evo Morales. Now It’s...](https://cepr.net/the-oas-helped-facilitate-last-years-coup-against-evo-morales-now-its-observing-todays-bolivian-elections/)** > > Jacobin See article on original site Today, nearly one year after Evo Morales was ousted in a coup facilitated by the Organization of American States (OAS), Bolivia will finally vote in new elections. With Luis Arce, the candidate of Morales’s... > **[How the OAS, and the media’s lack of scrutiny, caused a violent coup in Bolivia](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/how-the-oas-and-the-medias-lack-of-scrutiny-caused-a-violent-coup-in-bolivia/)** > > In a world of post truth politics, a false media narrative based on the OAS’s flawed statistics was instrumental in overthrowing a democratically elected government. Now Bolivia faces the consequences. Español > **[The OAS has to answer for its role in the Bolivian coup](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/02/the-oas-has-to-answer-for-its-role-in-the-bolivian-coup)** > > We call upon the Organization of American States to retract its misleading statements about the election, which have contributed to the political conflict > **[How the OAS, and the media’s lack of scrutiny, caused a violent coup in Bolivia](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/how-the-oas-and-the-medias-lack-of-scrutiny-caused-a-violent-coup-in-bolivia/)** > > In a world of post truth politics, a false media narrative based on the OAS’s flawed statistics was instrumental in overthrowing a democratically elected government. Now Bolivia faces the consequences. Español > **[WPR\_Amid\_Repression\_and\_Scrutiny\_of\_the\_OAS...ivia\_Staggers\_Toward\_an\_Election\_Rerun.pdf](https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/WPR_Amid_Repression_and_Scrutiny_of_the_OAS...ivia_Staggers_Toward_an_Election_Rerun.pdf)** > > 2016.64 KB > **[Prensa Latina - Latin American News Agency](https://www.plenglish.com/?o=rn&id=60917&SEO=oas-under-criticism-for-double-standard-on-bolivian-elections)** > > Latest news from Latin America and the world, we tell the truth minute by minute, from LAtin American news agency Correspondents - > **[Bolivia polls transparent, Arce victory legitimate: OAS - France 24](https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20201022-bolivia-polls-transparent-arce-victory-legitimate-oas)** > > Bolivia polls transparent, Arce victory legitimate: OAS > **[US centre: No evidence of fraud in Bolivia’s October polls](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2020/2/28/us-centre-no-evidence-of-fraud-in-bolivias-october-polls)** > > New report questions OAS results on Bolivia’s election that led to the overthrow of president Evo Morales. Will Biden respect democracy or be like Trump? > **[Pressure Increases for Biden to Deal with OAS ouster of Evo Morales](https://www.antillean.org/almagro-oas-bolivia-129120/)** > > The defeat of Donald Trump in the recent US elections is a reckoning for the OAS and, by extension, the CARICOM Member States that have often broken ranks to support Washington-led interference in Latin America. Need more? Next we’ll get into the funding of the OAS and their track record. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/42 "2021-01-16T21:35:30Z")
> [@Manwich](#): > > a nightmare of political repression and racist state violence Woops, we did a bad maths. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/43 "2021-01-16T21:50:02Z")
I’m not interested in arguing with you. As I indicated above, I basically support Morales and his policies. I’m fairly left wing myself. But Morales let his personal egotism get in the way for the best thing for his movement in trying to get re-elected. In so doing he damaged his movement and provided ammunition to those trying to discredit leftists. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/44 "2021-01-16T21:54:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m fairly left wing myself. Those links weren’t cherry picked, it’s what I got searching for “OAS Boliva” and I looked for contradictory articles, there aren’t any other than from OAS. You’ve unwittingly reguritated OAS propaganda despite evidence and said nothing to condem the murderous coup. Stop blaming Morales. I beseech you and all other democracy minded Dopers to petition their local members of government to support democracy in Boliva. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/45 "2021-01-16T21:55:41Z")
Like I said, have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/46 "2021-01-16T22:03:14Z")
How it started: > [@Colibri](#): > > I agree that Evo being forced to step down was good for democracy. (Googles “OAS Bolivia”) How it ended: > [@Colibri](#): > > I’m not interested in arguing with you ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/47 "2021-01-16T22:04:38Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > have fun. Tell that to the those slaughtered by the coup makers. Tell that to those impoverished by the economic destruction they caused that will linger for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/48 "2021-01-16T22:23:42Z")
> [@RyanAdam](#): > > a priori anti Americanism There’s a shitload of a posteriori that the US did though isn’t there? ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/49 "2021-01-17T13:31:49Z")
Posting a bunch of opinion pieces by various third tier Leftist politicos, academics and similar does refute Colibri, it only highlights your reflexive, obsessed Hard Left anti Americanism and confirmed blind apologist for anything “your team” hard-Left (clear enough in the Corbyn threads or citing approvingly Venezuelan ambassadors). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/50 "2021-01-17T14:30:32Z")
I’ve worked in Latin America since 1977, and have visited almost every major country including Cuba, Bolivia, and Venezuela. I am fluent in Spanish. I have lived in Panama for more than 30 years, and have known it from Canal Zone days through the Torrijos and Noriega dictatorships to today. I was here during the violence against the Noriega regime, and missed being here for the US invasion in 1989 by 36 hours. I was in Guatemala in the 1970s, and passed through Nicaragua shortly after the Sandinista victory in 1979. I have worked extensively in Peru, which was torn apart by both left-wing and right-wing violence. I work extensively with impoverished groups including indigenous people and campesinos. I am highly aware of the many many atrocities the US has been complicit in in Latin America over the past 50 years and revolted by them. We have a horrific record in the region, and I won’t deny it. But the OP keeps ignoring my point. I’m not trying to absolve the US. But just because the US is opposed to something doesn’t make it right. Latin Americans have also in large part been responsible for their own problems, especially for tolerating corruption and support for authoritarian regimes on both the left and the right. The attitude the OP shows, in blaming the US for all of Latin America’s problems, is extremely patronizing in denying Latin America any agency in deciding how they govern themselves, and is regarded as such by many Latin Americans. The US may be opposed to the Venezuelan regime, but 99% of that particular shit-show has been the responsibility of Venezuelans. I think the OPs attitude stems from getting his information from left-wing sources rather than any experience with actual Latin Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/51 "2021-01-17T14:41:01Z")
It seems to me that, when a politician isn’t allowed to run for another term, and does so anyway, that right there is already a pretty big electoral irregularity. If I’m asking the question “were there any electoral irregularities”, when I get to that point, I can stop looking, because the answer is “yes”. It would be different if his referendum to eliminate term limits had succeeded. In that case, I might call it an unwise decision, but it would have been clearly within the rules, and part of democracy is that the people are allowed to make unwise decisions. But the referendum didn’t succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/52 "2021-01-17T19:31:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The attitude the OP shows, in blaming the US for all of Latin America’s problems, is extremely patronizing in denying Latin America any agency in deciding how they govern themselves, and is regarded as such by many Latin Americans. The OAS lied about the election and helped “facilitate a coup”. The OAS is mainly funded by the US government. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/53 "2021-01-17T19:32:08Z")
Non sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/54 "2021-01-17T20:01:28Z")
Usual hard Left conspiracy mongering, mirror of Birchers and commies every where. ---
**Author:** ![Manwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Manwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manwich)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/55 "2021-01-17T21:46:19Z")
The important thing is we agree the US government funds the OAS and they facilitated the coup. Where do we go from here? Can we agree to work on this: Biden should order an investigation into OAS actions and ensure those responsible face appropriate consequences so this doesn’t happen again. Any loans taken out by the coup government should be excused or paid for by the US. The US should pay repetitions to make up for the enormous economic damage caused by the coup. Can we agree on that? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2021, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/56 "2021-01-27T21:00:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In any case, the root cause of the problem was still Morales attempting to make himself president for life, despite his referendum on re-election having been voted down. Morales being personally re-elected would have been detrimental to democracy in Bolivia; he should have allowed an ally to run. I agree, but seeing what happened in Ecuador with Lenin Moreno may have influenced him there. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/57 "2021-04-02T21:33:34Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [Troll post by fart](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troll-post-by-fart/939272/2) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/58 "2021-04-02T21:21:55Z")
A post was split to a new topic: [Troll post by fart](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/troll-post-by-fart/939272) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/60 "2021-04-23T22:47:16Z")
Wow–you don’t want to post too often! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478/66 "2021-05-30T16:21:52Z")
Closed as a serial Sock keeps bumping it and no one else cares. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bolivia-wins-usa-loses/923478.md?page=2)