# Bonds hits Homerun to tie Ruth - Racist Sportswriters to trash him again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 20, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570 "2006-05-20T21:16:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/141 "2006-05-22T16:54:31Z")
Certainly it isn’t the whole story, but there were still 19 games a year in which Ruth could face St. Louis Browns pitching while any good Browns player had to face Yankees’ pitching. 19 more against the Washington Senators. 19 more against the Cleveland Indians’ pitching. It did add up to something significant. Your other points, about it being almost useless to try to compare performances from different eras, is right on. The issue today is to decide how much of a steroid discount Bonds’ performances should be given to compare him to his contemporaries. If you think that almost all the top hitters have been juiced lately, you don’t even have to do that. I didn’t think they were until Palmeiro, who has never looked anything like a juicer, tested dirty. But maybe they are. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/142 "2006-05-22T17:13:57Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] (Giambi ain’t exactly treated nicely outside of Yankee Stadium. If he were chasing down Ruth, it would be just as big a disgrace.) [/QUOTE] In a tepid defense of Giambi, he’s the only current player I know of who has admitted to (past?) use. He probably can’t take a whizz any more without someone collecting and testing it. Not that it matters - as I understand it, there are enough undetectable steroids out there that no one has to stop using. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/143 "2006-05-22T17:28:44Z")
Giambi did apologize to the NY fans in a press conference, but wouldn’t say for what. He did attribute his recent weight loss, not to cleaning up, but to an “intestinal parasite”, though. :rolleyes: Or maybe you meant \*Jeremy \* Giambi? I believe he \*did \* admit it, not that steroids helped his career much. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/144 "2006-05-22T17:43:26Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Giambi did apologize to the NY fans in a press conference, but wouldn’t say for what. He did attribute his recent weight loss, not to cleaning up, but to an “intestinal parasite”, though. :rolleyes: [/quote] I think those events actually occurred in reverse order. The excuse was ridiculous (and he didn’t even admit to the weight loss right away; when he showed up at training camp looking thinner, he said he’d only lost four pounds), but while he wouldn’t say why he was apologizing about :p, probably for legal reasons, he at least showed some forthrightness in his cowardice by saying he was sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/145 "2006-05-22T18:23:11Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] No, I don’t think so. Obviously, YOU may personally not factor race into it, but we’re not talking about any one person specifically. [/QUOTE] But the OP seems to be positing that the only reason someone could possibly be opposed to Bonds breaking Ruth’s record is racism. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/146 "2006-05-22T18:31:37Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] If they’re juicing, how can any of them be worthy of consideration? [/QUOTE] Should steroid use mean automatic disqualfiication for the Hall? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/147 "2006-05-22T18:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=Yookeroo] Should steroid use mean automatic disqualfiication for the Hall? Why? [/QUOTE] Because every accomplishment is suspect. I suppose if it can be proven that one achieved Hall-worthy levels of excellence prior to juicing, a difficult case could be made. Presently the big hitters look like a collection of pathological liars who do their utmost to conceal their violations, so it’s not clear to me how we could, if we proved steroid use in the present, establish the validity of past performance. Seems justifiable to me to summarily exclude the player who we know juices from inclusion, and put the onus on them to exonorate their past selves if they feel steroids weren’t responsible. I’m not one to cut these guys much slack if they get legitimately nailed. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/148 "2006-05-22T19:17:24Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] But the OP seems to be positing that the only reason someone could possibly be opposed to Bonds breaking Ruth’s record is racism. [/QUOTE] The OP is pretty hysterical. I didn’t write it, what can I tell ya. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/149 "2006-05-22T19:18:50Z")
Well, now I understand why the media hates Hank Aaron so much. I had been really unclear on that for a long time. Is it OK to hate Bonds and say his homeruns are overrated if we say the same thing about Babe Ruth? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/150 "2006-05-22T19:30:12Z")
> [@Frosted Glass](#): > > Not that I am a defender of Barry Bonds on any level but I am not really sure why people put so much damn stock in a book that the Balco janitor could have written. Everyone made such a big deal when Game of Shadows came out but it seems pretty stupid. Since when did people start giving credit to tell-alls of this nature. His wife did not write it and neither did he so I do not really see this as proof of cheating. We know he is on the juice but stop using this as unconditional evidence. I feel the same way. Besides, it was written by SF Chronicle writers–why couldn’t they have put it all in their newspaper, to which they had daily writing access? I have an idea why: it wouldn’tve all passed the fact-checkers. > [@Marley23](#): > > Bonds has not contested a word of what is written in it. Maybe he doesn’t want to make himself look worse than he already does. Granted, we’re not talking about the most media-savvy man in the game, but the stupidity has to end somewhere. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > Huh? Are you really arguing that quicker reflexes aren’t a benefit to power hitters? And if that’s the case, it’s OK for these players to “cheat” with them? No and no. You’ve got to stop seeing this in B&W, man. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > Every drug is different. Saying one is “way different” sounds like rationalization. It is, though. I’m not rationalizing anything, but I can tell you that I’ve sampled a wide variety of illegal drugs, including most of the different amphetamines that have been in any significant use recently, and steroids really aren’t like any of them in any way, from the time/dose structure to its effects to its pharmacological methodology to the method of administration to its side effects to its withdrawal symptoms. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/151 "2006-05-22T19:35:37Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Because every accomplishment is suspect. I suppose if it can be proven that one achieved Hall-worthy levels of excellence prior to juicing, a difficult case could be made. Presently the big hitters look like a collection of pathological liars who do their utmost to conceal their violations, so it’s not clear to me how we could, if we proved steroid use in the present, establish the validity of past performance. Seems justifiable to me to summarily exclude the player who we know juices from inclusion, and put the onus on them to exonorate their past selves if they feel steroids weren’t responsible. I’m not one to cut these guys much slack if they get legitimately nailed. The problem from a pragmatic standpoint is that so many players have juiced up in this decade and the last–including probably the majority of the power hitters that would have been HOF material anyway–that you’d basically be excluding an entire generation of All-Star hitters from consideration. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/152 "2006-05-22T19:44:53Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] The problem from a pragmatic standpoint is that so many players have juiced up in this decade and the last–including probably the majority of the power hitters that would have been HOF material anyway–that you’d basically be excluding an entire generation of All-Star hitters from consideration. [/QUOTE] The writers and HOF players that vote on the inductees will have to make choices based on informed opinion. This is where many will say, Big Mac always cheated and only is a candidate for Home Run hitting. Bonds, probably did not juice up until '99 and was already a great all a round player and if he retired in 99 instead, would probably have been voted in. Alex Rodriguez: Probably never juiced, though tainted by the era, vote him in when it is time. Pudge Rodriguez or Mike Piazza: A little more suspicious but only enough lose a few votes. Palmiero: Proven cheat and idiot. Will lose a lot of votes. Sosa: nothing proven, some credible doubt, might keep enough votes. Frank Thomas: is he a HOF? Do I think he cheated? Maybe and probably not. In a weak year, I vote for him. etc. Jim ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/153 "2006-05-22T20:06:51Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Alex Rodriguez: Probably never juiced, though tainted by the era, vote him in when it is time. Pudge Rodriguez or Mike Piazza: A little more suspicious but only enough lose a few votes. [/QUOTE] First off, yes, Jim, I’m following you around. This is what bothers me about the doping scandals. The papers out a few and act like it is a somewhat isolated problem. However, player tell-alls talk about how pervasive the problem is. Personally, I think we would be very, very surprised at some names that would show up if baseball (or any other sport) learned how to spot every substance accurately. I think a lot of unlikely names would end up on the list. Not every user is going for the big-bodied power hitter end result. Track stars juice up, and they are among the last people who need to bulk up. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/154 "2006-05-22T20:08:23Z")
A clarification: I’m not accusing A-Rod, Piazza, Pudge nor any other player of anything. My point is that we, the fans, really don’t know how pervasive doping is in professional sports. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/155 "2006-05-22T20:14:54Z")
**What Exit?** - Pudge is going to be under some suspicion for being named in Canseco’s book and for “suspiciously” losing weight a year or two ago. I don’t think anyone has ever specifically accused Piazza of anything, and he was consistently excellent - no Brady Anderson years for him. And Frank Thomas only in a weak year? I’m pretty sure that guy is in. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/156 "2006-05-22T20:23:03Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] **What Exit?** - Pudge is going to be under some suspicion for being named in Canseco’s book and for “suspiciously” losing weight a year or two ago. I don’t think anyone has ever specifically accused Piazza of anything, and he was consistently excellent - no Brady Anderson years for him. And Frank Thomas only in a weak year? I’m pretty sure that guy is in. [/QUOTE] I was trying to make some examples. Piazza was drafted as a favor and turned into the all time Home run hitting catcher. There will be a little suspicion and as I said not much. Pudge was named and had a slightly suspicious weight loss after mandatory testing went into effect. Again, I don’t think he will lose many votes. Frank Thomas, I will concede, I think he is going in, I was trying to illustrate how I think the voters will judge the players of the steroid era. Sorry for not clarifying that. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/157 "2006-05-22T20:23:09Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I don’t think anyone has ever specifically accused Piazza of anything, and he was consistently excellent [/QUOTE] You obviously haven’t seen the Padres this year. 😉 Seriously, though, I agree with your points. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/158 "2006-05-22T20:27:05Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] You obviously haven’t seen the Padres this year. 😉 [/QUOTE] I saw him in New York for the last several years. I did say “was.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/159 "2006-05-22T20:30:25Z")
[Whether you agree with it or not, this is pretty interesting](http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/060512) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570/160 "2006-05-22T20:52:20Z")
[QUOTE=threemae] Are you sure that it isn’t the doping issue? I don’t follow baseball closely but everything I’ve heard criticizing his breaking of the record relates to steroid use and the laughable controls that MLB has attempted to put into place regarding their use. [/QUOTE] Seconded, I don’t follow baseball, and really don’t care about it. Unfortunatly I have heard something about this non-importaint event, and it was that his use of steriods negates his record breaking, I didn’t even know what color he is before your post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-hits-homerun-to-tie-ruth-racist-sportswriters-to-trash-him-again/357570.md?page=9)