# Bonds' record is LEGiT, mutherfuckers! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 9, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944 "2007-08-09T01:44:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/81 "2007-08-09T15:58:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **you with the face** > But take away all the hoohah and \*\*jizz \*\* and all you’re left with is a bunch of guys hitting a ball with a stick over and over again. It has sig line potential. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/82 "2007-08-09T16:12:45Z")
Does anyone have cites for these supposed increases in head & shoe size? Because [Bonds’ may not have](http://deadspin.com/sports/barry-bonds/have-barry-bonds-arms-really-not-grown-286897.php). ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/83 "2007-08-09T16:23:34Z")
**Bonds’ record is LEGiT** Sure it is. It’s just that it’s not really a Major League baseball record. Instead, he holds the Pharmaceutical Industry Home Run Record. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/84 "2007-08-09T17:05:06Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] To an outsider who couldn’t care less if baseball died and went to hell tomorrow, this whole controversy looks like a baffling waste of energy and emotion… [/QUOTE] To quote my son, the Err Apparent: “Go Twins! And take the Vikings with you!” ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/85 "2007-08-09T17:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=Troy McClure SF] Does anyone have cites for these supposed increases in head & shoe size? Because [Bonds’ may not have](http://deadspin.com/sports/barry-bonds/have-barry-bonds-arms-really-not-grown-286897.php). [/QUOTE] According to [this](http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/sports/2007/03/09/tale-tape-and-shoe-size/), it may have been the Giants equipment manager. And if true, is there anyone on Earth whose shoe size jumped from 10 1/2 to 13 from ages 35-40 or whatever? Is there any other explanation for this? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/86 "2007-08-09T17:22:36Z")
An anecdote to add into the pile - my husband has been taking inhaled steroids for his asthma for about six years now, and his head has also grown a hat size or two. Apparently, steroids really do make your head grow. For what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/87 "2007-08-09T18:15:36Z")
Any other, er, uh, “growth effects”? Just curious… ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/88 "2007-08-09T18:59:35Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Any other, er, uh, “growth effects”? Just curious… [/QUOTE] Been coughing a lot lately, have you? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/89 "2007-08-09T19:15:41Z")
[Works for me.](http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/2004Englehart/images/baseballster.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/90 "2007-08-09T19:59:28Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] Really? Cite? [/QUOTE] No. This is BBQ Pit, not GD or GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/91 "2007-08-09T20:00:47Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] Is there any evidence that steroid use has helped pitchers in any way? Do they throw faster these days? Do they throw longer? Do they pitch more often? Aside from Nolan Ryan do they have longer careers? With hitters the ball is going to travel farther if hit with more power, is there a correlation for pitchers? I haven’t seen any evidence of pitchers gaining any advantage over hitters since the advent of steroids but maybe I am missing something. Anyone? [/QUOTE] Steroid use would not improve ligaments and tendons, but would likely make them more vulnerable to injury. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/92 "2007-08-09T20:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sailboat] **Bonds’ record is LEGiT** Sure it is. It’s just that it’s not really a Major League baseball record. Instead, he holds the Pharmaceutical Industry Home Run Record. Sailboat [/QUOTE] Nice. I’m in complete agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/93 "2007-08-09T22:33:23Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] A large part of Bonds’ ability is talent and that often goes undercredited because of the steroid issue. [/QUOTE] Not under credited, it’s just that the record next to his name has an asterisk next to it, and that can’t be forgotten. Record breaking is a fundamental number in which athlete measures athlete. Because of the steroid use, it cannot be said with certainty Bonds is a better baseball player than Aaron, and I think deep down THAT is what pisses off the anti Bonds faction. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/94 "2007-08-09T22:43:57Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] So if anyone’s gotten the impression he uses the elbow armor to lean in and get cheap HBPs, he doesn’t. Or he’s bad at it. [/QUOTE] It wasn’t my intention to suggest that is what he does. Rather, I feel he uses body armor as one tool to help him “take the inner half of the plate.” It’s very clear to anyone who watches Barry Bonds that his “batting stance” puts him into the strike zone in a significant manner. Why this doesn’t produce many HBPs for him is probably a combination of several factors. One, is that maybe, despite his being in the strike zone, pitchers have no desire to hit him because they are aware he will just be awarded a free base, so instead they play his game and pitch on the outer part of the plate, where it is easier to hit home runs for Barry. Barry also has amazing vision and reflexes, so it’s also quite possible he’s just better at moving out of the way than other players–when it is possible to do so (you can’t always avoid a pitched ball, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/95 "2007-08-09T23:42:03Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] I have been a Barry Bonds fan ever since his days with the Pirates. I can’t believe all the shit he has gotten/is getting about his accomplishment (i.e., beating Henry Aaron’s record of 755 career homers), inarguably one of the greatest in baseball history. It seems to come down to two things: Bonds is a dick and uses steroids. I call _total BULLSHIT_ on both counts. [/QUOTE] Is Bonds a dick? Ask his teammates. I haven’t seen the hit or a replay of it, but everyone is commenting on the fact that nobody bothered to come out of the dugout and congratulate him. If that is not correct, my apologies. Does he use steroids? Given that his head now looks like a pumpkin, he either juices or is the victim of a voodoo attack. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2007, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/96 "2007-08-10T00:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sitnam] Not under credited, it’s just that the record next to his name has an asterisk next to it, and that can’t be forgotten. Record breaking is a fundamental number in which athlete measures athlete. Because of the steroid use, it cannot be said with certainty Bonds is a better baseball player than Aaron, and I think deep down THAT is what pisses off the anti Bonds faction. [/QUOTE] It can’t be said with certainty that Hank Aaron is a better player than Willie Mays, even though he hit 95 more home runs… in fact, most people will agree Mays was a better player. Hitting more home runs thank Hank Aaron doesn’t mean Barry Bonds is a better player, and his record being helped by steroids doesn’t mean he’s not better. Hitting more home runs means he hit more home runs. The record is simply a statement of fact; Barry Bonds hit more home runs than anyone else in the major leagues. That’s it. When this is all blown over, this era - the 1990s and this decade… will be remembered as an age when many power hitters used steroids and, due to many other factors, home runs were hit at an abnormal rate. Baseball fans will discount the home run totals because they will understand that, in context, a 45-homer season isn’t a big deal in 1998, whereas it was a much bigger deal in, say, the early 80’s. Baseball fans understand that a guy with a 2.75 ERA in 1968 wasn’t really that great a pitcher, and they understand a guy who hit .306 in 1930 wasn’t really a particularly good hitter. They’re going to realize that an era when one guy could hit over 60 homers three times and not even lead the league in homers in any of those years was an era when homers were easily come by. They’ll look at that and say “Yeah, Bonds hit 789 homers. But how many would Willie Mays have hit if he’d played then? Like, 900!” That’s one more of the many cool things about baseball. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2007, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/97 "2007-08-10T01:17:13Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] Is Bonds a dick? Ask his teammates. I haven’t seen the hit or a replay of it, but everyone is commenting on the fact that nobody bothered to come out of the dugout and congratulate him. If that is not correct, my apologies. [/QUOTE] It’s not correct. It’s amazing how many people are willing to simply parrot incorrect information about someone they don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/98 "2007-08-10T01:20:32Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] One, is that maybe, despite his being in the strike zone, pitchers have no desire to hit him because they are aware he will just be awarded a free base, so instead they play his game and pitch on the outer part of the plate, where it is easier to hit home runs for Barry. [/QUOTE] Why would that be a factor? Bonds has been awarded a free base, both unintentionally and intentionally, more often than any other player in the history of baseball. If pitchers aren’t hitting him, i don’t think that concern over putting him on first base is the major determining factor. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/99 "2007-08-10T01:26:00Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] When this is all blown over, this era - the 1990s and this decade… will be remembered as an age when many power hitters used steroids and, due to many other factors, home runs were hit at an abnormal rate. Baseball fans will discount the home run totals because they will understand that, in context, a 45-homer season isn’t a big deal in 1998, whereas it was a much bigger deal in, say, the early 80’s. Baseball fans understand that a guy with a 2.75 ERA in 1968 wasn’t really that great a pitcher, and they understand a guy who hit .306 in 1930 wasn’t really a particularly good hitter. They’re going to realize that an era when one guy could hit over 60 homers three times and not even lead the league in homers in any of those years was an era when homers were easily come by. They’ll look at that and say “Yeah, Bonds hit 789 homers. But how many would Willie Mays have hit if he’d played then? Like, 900!” That’s one more of the many cool things about baseball. [/QUOTE] I think this is all exactly right. One question i have, though, is how the sabermetric guys will work out their era-adjusted figures for this period. After all, as far as i can tell, all their other era-adjusted calculations are based on the assumption that all players played under the same conditions. So, if you played in the dead ball era, every player from that era played with a dead ball. And if you played when the mound was higher, then every pitcher pitched from a higher mound and every hitter faced a higher mound. With steroids, though, it’s probably wrong to assume that every player is taking them. This doesn’t mean, of course, that era-adjusted figures can’t be arrived at. It simply means that, when looking at those figures, it might not be clear if someone’s figures are good (for the era) because he was a particularly good player, or because he was juiced. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944/100 "2007-08-10T02:47:16Z")
You have to wonder at this point, what price Bonds has paid for his artificial enhancements. The long-term effects of whatever magical substances he’s been ingesting (Steroids? HGH? Bee pollen?) will have a chance to manifest themselves. Based on [what we know about anabolic steroid use](http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/drugs/steroids.asp), the outlook for his health in upcoming years is not rosy. Maybe he’ll beat the odds and live to a ripe, healthy old age. But I’d bet against it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonds-record-is-legit-mutherfuckers/414944.md?page=6)