# Bonuses and Pay raises? Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388 "2018-01-24T16:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/41 "2018-01-26T19:40:42Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Complaints from the opposition about bonuses and pay raises being too little to matter are reminiscent of the classic restaurant gripe - i.e. that the food stinks, and even worse, the portions are _too small_. When it is the only restaurant in town, and if you don’t eat there, you starve, that actually become a valid complaint, rather than a contradiction. > [@](#): > > Better to emphasize the barf-fest that will occur some years down the road, after the special interest-stuffing proves indigestible. There are other threads in which the coming barf-fested is dissected in all its glory. This thread is about bonuses and pay raises. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/42 "2018-01-26T22:19:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Self check out is there because many customers want it. I prefer it over check out lanes. It may be marginally cheaper, but you still have at least one, and usually two people who are overseeing 6-8 self check out. If they were all staffed with employees, then that adds less than $100 an hour to the labor cost. > > If they were paying say, $5 an hour, and staffing 8 checkout lanes, they would be paying $40 an hour. At $11 an hour, they are paying $88 an hour. Is it your contention that the increase of labor of $48 an hour (at a ridiculous extreme, going from far below MW, while maintaining full staffing) is the reason that they have self checkout? > It is only funny to you because you do not actually understand what is being said. You laugh at things going over your head. Supply and demand has everything to do with it. You even admit that the reason for it is a tightening labor market. It is not mumbled, there is no confusion. It is not magic, it is the consequence of a growing and expanding economy that has been growing and expanding since 2009, when we started pulling out of the recession. > > If target is having staffing problems, it is not because they are not willing to fill the positions that need filling, it is because they cannot attract enough employees at the offered wage, which is why they have to offer higher wages. It is not that because wages are “magically” so high that they refuse to hire enough employees to staff their stores. You are starting to sound conservative economically. Good. But you miss many of the threads where people make the ridiculous claim that somehow labor is some mystical thing that is immune to supply and demand. And that without minimum wage laws everyone would be serfs and their children hired out as chimney sweeps. I’m glad you are one of the sensible ones. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/43 "2018-01-26T22:21:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The taxes that they pay are generally going to be a lower percentage than an employee of the company, so if the money went to workers instead, they are going to pay taxes on it, and probably more, especially once you have figured in payroll taxes, and even more so, once you figure in sales taxes on the other side. > > As far as investing, really? What investments? There are not enough places to invest your money. That’s why banks are sitting on trillions of dollars they are begging people to borrow. Try buying a CD, the very best ones are paying almost a half percent these days, most are paying like .15% or so. That’s why the stock market’s price is getting so overly inflated these days. It is not because the companies are worth more, it is because people don’t have anywhere else to put their money. > > Your argument works when we are in a supply shortage. When there is not enough being produced to keep up with demand. When there isn’t enough investment monies to fund the expansion of capital to increase production to meet increased demand. There are times when top-down works. > > This is not one of them. All indications show that money in the hands of those who will spend it in the economy will do more to improve the economy than putting it in the hands of those who will use it to further inflate the stock market bubble. What you just posted is, IMO, an argument for a bit more taxes at the high end and a basic income. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/44 "2018-01-26T23:15:43Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You are starting to sound conservative economically. Good. But you miss many of the threads where people make the ridiculous claim that somehow labor is some mystical thing that is immune to supply and demand. And that without minimum wage laws everyone would be serfs and their children hired out as chimney sweeps. > > I’m glad you are one of the sensible ones. You are missing one small fact. Workers are not like commodities in that if they are too cheap, they starve. Since most of us don’t want people to starve, we either need to put a floor under pay or else have taxpayers fund low wages through food stampe etc. I know conservatives like to claim that higher MW leads to unemployment, but the facts don’t bear this out. Especially not in times of low unemployment, like now. If you believe in the Laffer curve, you shouldn’t really be lecturing anyone on economic ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/45 "2018-01-27T01:08:12Z")
You know your party’s in trouble when it becomes necessary to complain about low unemployment, bonuses, and wage increases. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/46 "2018-01-27T01:11:31Z")
… brought about by the Obama administration. (Finished that for ya, as Trump’s budget went into effect just four months ago and the tax bill largely impacts the future.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/47 "2018-01-27T01:54:14Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > … brought about by the Obama administration. Yes it’s just a coincidence that the economy immediately picked up after the election. It had nothing to do with promises made (and kept) regarding lowering taxes and reduction of regulations affecting businesses. Obama’s vast business management skills culminated at that precise moment. > [@JohnT](#): > > .(Finished that for ya, as Trump’s budget went into effect just four months ago and the tax bill largely impacts the future.) The tax bill directly affects how businesses budget going forward. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/48 "2018-01-27T03:53:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > You are missing one small fact. Workers are not like commodities in that if they are too cheap, they starve. Since most of us don’t want people to starve, we either need to put a floor under pay or else have taxpayers fund low wages through food stampe etc. > I know conservatives like to claim that higher MW leads to unemployment, but the facts don’t bear this out. Especially not in times of low unemployment, like now. Well, in high demand a price floor has little effect? Pardon my potty mouth but no shit. > [@](#): > > If you believe in the Laffer curve, you shouldn’t really be lecturing anyone on economic ignorance. Nice but completely irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/49 "2018-01-27T04:03:33Z")
Since a bonus is a one-time thing, you’re more likely to put it aside for the proverbial rainy-day. With an ongoing pay raise, you’re more likely to spend it. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/50 "2018-01-27T04:59:36Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Try buying a CD, the very best ones are paying almost a half percent these days, most are paying like .15% or so. Please get your facts straight before you post. The best rates for a one-year CD are approaching 2.5% (not .5%), and the national average is 1.70% (not .15%). > **[Best CD Rates For June 2024 - Up to 5.40% | Bankrate](https://www.bankrate.com/banking/cds/cd-rates/)** > > Find the best CD rates by comparing national and local rates. Bankrate compares thousands of financial institutions to make it easy for you to apply for the best certificate of deposit rate. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/51 "2018-01-27T05:08:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please get your facts straight before you post. > > The best rates for a one-year CD are approaching 2.5% (not .5%), and the national average is 1.70% (not .15%). > > [https://www.bankrate.com/cd.aspx#testid=10039565935\_variation1](https://www.bankrate.com/cd.aspx#testid=10039565935_variation1) Missed the edit window. The best rates for a one-year CD are around 2%. You can get up to 2.5% if you go with a five-year duration. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/52 "2018-01-27T07:24:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Sure they have to do with the cost of labor. If the cost of labor is significantly above zero, [self-checkouts] will make sense. Cut the MW by $1, and you think [self-checkouts] will disappear? Right. I live in China. The wages for retail staff here are sod all, and yet you know what I see here? A gradual shift to self-checkout. Indeed there are stores where you scan items with your phone and just walk out the door (though there are a couple employees near the door watching that everyone follows the rules). This has happened because the technology has become available and consumers are now comfortable using it. Not because human operators suddenly became too expensive. That’s why I can be confident saying a "race to the bottom”, trying to earn less than machines, will never work. For tasks that _do_ require humans however, wages are set by how easily a company can fill a role with a suitable candidate, not that person’s value to the company. In the vast majority of cases, instituting a MW just cuts very slightly into the profits companies make, since if a hypothetical company was barely breaking even on the cost of their cheapest staff that would signal the business model doesn’t work any more and the company is about to go under. It would be like a company that could barely afford to keep the electricity on all day. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/53 "2018-01-27T17:21:26Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You are starting to sound conservative economically. Good. But you miss many of the threads where people make the ridiculous claim that somehow labor is some mystical thing that is immune to supply and demand. And that without minimum wage laws everyone would be serfs and their children hired out as chimney sweeps. > > I’m glad you are one of the sensible ones. I try not to be. Anyway, I don’t think that there are many liberals that believe as you say they do. Instead, what they believe is that if you have a full time employee, then that employee should be able to live off the wage that you pay them. It’s just a matter of practicality. Society has created a workforce for employers to draw from. If employers are drawing from that recourse, without paying enough for to live on, then society has to pick up the slack. The idea that the employer is responsible for the well being of the worker is an unfortunate side effect of capitalism. The problem is, if the entity that is profiting from the fruits of the worker’s labors is not gong to be responsible for the upkeep of that worker, who is? > [@octopus](#): > > What you just posted is, IMO, an argument for a bit more taxes at the high end and a basic income. Well, I would agree to that, but getting it implmeneted is easier said that done. If you have that situation, where there is a floor to poverty, that at worst you just don’t have any luxuries, but are still able to live in health and dignity, then employers are no longer responsible for the well being of the employees, society has chosen to take that task. As demand increases, employers can draw from that pool of employees, and as demand decreases or jobs become obsolete, employers can let people go, without putting them in a position of potential homelessness and deprivation. Employers wouldn’t need to pay a minimum wage, as people would be working for what they feel their time is worth, rather than working because if they don’t work they become homeless and starve. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Please get your facts straight before you post. > > The best rates for a one-year CD are approaching 2.5% (not .5%), and the national average is 1.70% (not .15%). > > [https://www.bankrate.com/cd.aspx#testid=10039565935\_variation1](https://www.bankrate.com/cd.aspx#testid=10039565935_variation1) Hmmm, well I definitely should do better research if I buy a CD. I was giving the rates offered [by my bank](https://www.usbank.com/ICWeb/productComparison.html?productCode=CDA), and assumed they were more or less competitive with what else is out there. But still, best out there is 2.55% on a 5 year. That’s still pretty damn low, for a CD. I just bought a car, and my interest rate is 3.49%, and my credit isn’t spectacular or anything. My point still stands, banks are sitting on [2.1 trillion in excess reserves as of December 2017](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/EXCSRESNS). Putting money in a bank does not free up money for investments. I will point out that according to your cite, the best rate on a 1 year is only 2%, not approaching 2.5%. The only ones near 2.5% are 5 year. Even the bar at the top, which I believe is effective yield rather than APY, only puts 1 years up to 2.11%. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/54 "2018-01-28T00:35:18Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Hmmm, well I definitely should do better research if I buy a CD. Yes, you really should. 😉 > [@](#): > > I will point out that according to your cite, the best rate on a 1 year is only 2%, not approaching 2.5%. The only ones near 2.5% are 5 year. Even the bar at the top, which I believe is effective yield rather than APY, only puts 1 years up to 2.11%. Yes, I corrected my numbers in post #51. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/55 "2018-01-29T15:55:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And some are getting 0. I haven’t seen the break down exactly, but shorter term employees aren’t going to get anything. Employees with less than a year don’t get a bonus, but do get the pay raise to $11/hr. Employees over a year start getting bonuses if they don’t qualify for the pay increase, i.e. are already making over $11/hr. Then it is rated by longevity with the company. I didn’t see a full break down, but 1 year employees get $220 and 20 year employees get $1000. Essentially, these bonuses are designed to give some reward to the employees who don’t get anything from the pay increase. > [@](#): > > And to say that it is becuase of the taxcuts means it is hard to explain [this](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-workers-bonus/wal-mart-pays-quarterly-bonuses-to-more-store-employees-idUSKCN11R10L). You are conflating bonuses. Walmart gives out quarterly bonuses based upon store performance, so the better your sales and lower your losses (“shrinkage”), the better the quarterly bonus. This is a different special one time bonus in addition to quarterly bonuses and annual merit pay increases that come out in February. > [@E-DUB](#): > > Since a bonus is a one-time thing, you’re more likely to put it aside for the proverbial rainy-day. With an ongoing pay raise, you’re more likely to spend it. Some would argue that a one-time bonus is more often spent on a splurge rather than saved for later, whereas a pay raise is money you can count on for regular bills. The mindset to save vs spend your bonus is likely the same mindset to save or spend from your pay raise. Frugal people are frugal, regardless of the source, whereas spenders spend, regardless of the source. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/56 "2018-01-29T23:17:21Z")
> [@Dandan](#): > > Just heard that another corporation, due to the changes in the tax laws, is passing the benefits on to their employees. Does this sound logical? Because I would think that once the corp boosted your pay or gave you a bonus, the corp would not have to pay taxes on that money. My brother-in-law likes to say “I understand cash, but I don’t get money”. I’m with him. Its not like they are giving away all the money. They are giving away just enough so that people will think they are getting something out of this obvious assfucking of the American people. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/57 "2018-01-30T03:45:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its not like they are giving away all the money. They are giving away just enough so that people will think they are getting something out of this obvious assfucking of the American people. Uh huh. It’s a shame Obama couldn’t ass fuck us with money. All I got out of it was increased health care costs and reduced hours. Clearly lower unemployment and increased wages is an evil plot. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/58 "2018-01-30T04:30:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Clearly lower unemployment and increased wages is an evil plot. Neither employment nor wages have seen any turnaround yet versus the pattern under obama: unemployment remains very low, and wages are increasing but at a slower pace than the economy. But if you’re in favor of higher wages, great, let’s support candidates that promise to increase the minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/59 "2018-01-31T00:57:18Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Neither employment nor wages have seen any turnaround yet versus the pattern under obama: unemployment remains very low, and wages are increasing but at a slower pace than the economy. > > But if you’re in favor of higher wages, great, let’s support candidates that promise to increase the minimum wage. You can’t spin the upswing in the economy or companies increasing wages. but it’s funny you should mention minimum wage while living in China. The highest minimum wage there is 17 cents an hour. Not the average, the highest. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/60 "2018-01-31T01:05:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You can’t spin the upswing in the economy or companies increasing wages. > > but it’s funny you should mention minimum wage while living in China. The highest minimum wage there is 17 cents an hour. Not the average, the highest. What upswing/It’s following the same path as the last eight years. As far as wages, there are a number of companies that have said they’re going to sit on the extra money and at least one has declared the tax break will be used to finance layoffs. [Walmart is closing](http://www.businessinsider.com/sams-club-stores-closing-list-2018-1) 63 Sam’s Clubs and laying off over 11,000 workers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388.md?page=4)