# Bonuses and Pay raises? Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388 "2018-01-24T16:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/61 "2018-01-31T01:20:56Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Walmart is closing](http://www.businessinsider.com/sams-club-stores-closing-list-2018-1) 63 Sam’s Clubs and laying off over 11,000 workers. Should Walmart be required to keep stores open that are not profitable, or that they other uses for? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/62 "2018-01-31T01:24:13Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > What upswing/It’s following the same path as the last eight years. > As far as wages, there are a number of companies that have said they’re going to sit on the extra money and at least one has declared the tax break will be used to finance layoffs. > [Walmart is closing](http://www.businessinsider.com/sams-club-stores-closing-list-2018-1) 63 Sam’s Clubs and laying off over 11,000 workers. I wasn’t aware Sam’s club represented the entire nation. I guess they could apply to one of the 20,000 Apple jobs and I need to correct the yuan conversion. that would be $2.84/hr wage in China. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/63 "2018-01-31T01:28:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Should Walmart be required to keep stores open that are not profitable, or that they other uses for? Did I _actually_ say that? Or even imply that? **Magiver** was saying that the tax breaks were having a positive effect. I was citing a case of the opposite occurring. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/64 "2018-01-31T01:33:00Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Did I _actually_ say that? Or even imply that? > **Magiver** was saying that the tax breaks were having a positive effect. I was citing a case of the opposite occurring. Your cite said no such thing. Walmart is closing stores. So what? Do you have ANY evidence that the store closings are related to the tax cut? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/65 "2018-01-31T01:47:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I wasn’t aware Sam’s club represented the entire nation. I guess they could apply to one of the 20,000 Apple jobs > > and I need to correct the yuan conversion. that would be $2.84/hr wage in China. Yuo mean the 20,000 jobs that might be created sometime in the next five years? Ever consider this was in the planning already? New buildings and 350 billion dollars in spending isn’t thrown together overnight. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Your cite said no such thing. Walmart is closing stores. So what? Do you have ANY evidence that the store closings are related to the tax cut? The tax break sure as hell didn’t save those jobs, did it? So far, it’s way too early to be crowing about the tax break and the wonderful effect it will have. [America’s 20 largest companies on the tax overhaul](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/corporations-tax-cut-gop-tax-bill/?utm_term=.9dfe137e9398) > [@](#): > > The Washington Post looked at what America’s 20 largest companies in the Fortune 500 say about taxes. Nearly all have vocally supported the GOP bill. Many say at least some of the extra money would probably go to shareholders via higher dividends. Other popular plans for additional cash include: looking for other companies to buy and paying down debt. Only two — AT&T and CVS — have made explicit promises to hire workers. Apple and Kroger executives have made vague statements that they would probably hire more people.\*\* Not a single company has said it will raise wages, \*\*although AT&T announced a one-time special bonus for workers after Trump signs the bill. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/66 "2018-01-31T01:56:18Z")
You claimed that the tax cut is financing layoffs, and then tried to use Walmart as an example. Where’s your cite? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/67 "2018-01-31T02:02:30Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Yuo mean the 20,000 jobs that might be created sometime in the next five years? > Ever consider this was in the planning already? New buildings and 350 billion dollars in spending isn’t thrown together overnight. > > The tax break sure as hell didn’t save those jobs, did it? So far, it’s way too early to be crowing about the tax break and the wonderful effect it will have. > > [America’s 20 largest companies on the tax overhaul](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/corporations-tax-cut-gop-tax-bill/?utm_term=.9dfe137e9398) [Let the good times roll.](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/this-is-just-the-start-of-companies-increasing-spending.html) In the hours after Congress approved the GOP tax cut plan, a handful of companies jumped to announce plans to share some of the proceeds on their employees and spend on infrastructure. Boeing was first out of the gate, followed by AT&T, which said it would give more than 200,000 unionized employees a special bonus of $1,000 once the tax bill is signed. The company also said it would increase its capital expenditures by $1 billion. Odd nobody rushed to do this the last 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/68 "2018-01-31T02:13:48Z")
[Corporate America Celebrated Tax Cuts by Laying Off Workers](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59wk9n/corporate-america-celebrated-tax-cuts-by-laying-off-workers) > [@](#): > > The Comcast and AT&T bonuses were also **announced late last year,** allowing them to be written off as a business expense in 2017. > AT&T is eliminating “thousands” of jobs, according to its union, the Communications Workers of America. “We believe there’s more than 4,000 people AT&T has (notified of layoffs) across the country,” Larry Robbins, vice president of CWA Local 4900, told the Indianapolis Daily Star. And those bonuses are one time and don’t add up to much. > [@](#): > > More to the point, any $1,000 bonus for workers is a drop in the ocean compared to chopping the corporate tax rate by 40 percent, as the Trump tax cuts will. AT&T, according to calculations from economist Dean Baker, will see $2.4 billion in annual savings from that tax cut, more than ten times the likely cost of its the one-time bonus. > [@](#): > > But what about companies like Wells Fargo, which kicked up its entry-level wage to $15 an hour? Surely this is a good sign? It sure is, except Wells Fargo’s own spokesman said it had nothing to do with the tax bill. “We have been on a path to increasing the minimum hourly rate, having most recently increased it in January 2017,” spokesman Peter Gilchrist pointed out to the LA Times, only to change his mind a day later, saying it really was about the tax cut. [These Companies Started Firing Employees Right After Getting Tax Cuts From Trump](https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/these-companies-started-firing-employees-right-after-getting-tax-cuts-from-trump.html/?a=viewall) Well, all those things happened. Within weeks of the tax bill passing, America’s richest corporations started laying off workers. By the third week of January, it had become a feeding frenzy, with one company saying it would lay off over 5,000 employees and use its tax cut for global “restructuring.” [/QUOTE] And the outsourcing hasn’t exactly been kept in check. [The Companies Offshoring Jobs at a Record Pace Under Trump](https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/the-companies-offshoring-jobs-at-a-record-pace-under-trump.html/) > [@](#): > > Trump has not saved many U.S. jobs from outsourcing since taking office, the record shows. | Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images > > You may remember these words from Donald Trump when he was running for president: > > “A Trump administration will stop the jobs from leaving America, and we will stop the jobs from leaving Minnesota.” > > President Trump said that during an event in Minneapolis in November 2016, just days before the election. However, since that date, U.S. companies have sent over 90,000 jobs overseas. That figure topped the numbers from 2012, 2014, and 2015, when Barack Obama was president. > > While that’s bad news for American workers, it gets worse. Many of the companies responsible for offshoring jobs received fat government contracts during the Trump administration. In fact, according to employment data charted by Good Jobs Nation and Public Citizen, federal contractors alone outsourced 10,269 jobs while taking over $19 billion in government money. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/69 "2018-01-31T02:25:33Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/70 "2018-01-31T02:27:33Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And those bonuses are one time and don’t add up to much. Said the person who needs to spin it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/71 "2018-01-31T02:31:10Z")
Amazing, all these jobs disappearing and the unemployment rate keeps going down. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/72 "2018-01-31T15:10:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Should Walmart be required to keep stores open that are not profitable, or that they other uses for? No, not at all. But why should they give raises and bonuses to employees if those raises and bonuses are unnecessary to attract and maintain a workforce? The point is, is that the tax cut is not responsible for walmart finally being profitable enough that they can manage to increase their worker’s wages. The fact of them closing stores and laying off workers just goes to show that they have no particular loyalty to their employees, and do not just give these raises out of the goodness of their hearts. If they were using the tax savings to pay bonuses and raises because they love their employees so much that they would use the savings from the tax change to give to them, even if it didn’t make economic sense, they could have used the savings to keep the unprofitable stores open as well, as that would make as much sense as giving employees money that you don’t need to give them. > [@Magiver](#): > > Amazing, all these jobs disappearing and the unemployment rate keeps going down. It’s almost as if it is following a trend that has been going on for nearly a decade now. What’s amazing is that there are people just now noticing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/73 "2018-02-01T03:03:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > It’s almost as if it is following a trend that has been going on for nearly a decade now. What’s amazing is that there are people just now noticing. Except no such trend exists. Businesses are reacting directly to the tax cut with increased wages and increased employment. No such trend existed with the Obama administration. There are no legislative initiatives that you can point to by Obama that generated anything positive to the economy. Obamacare was a job killing pile of legislation crap. Despite his admonishments that drilling wouldn’t lower prices the oil industry was able to side step him with fracking. Had they not done this the economy would have tanked worse than it did. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/74 "2018-02-01T03:07:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No such trend existed with the Obama administration. I’m sorry, but are you saying there was no trend with regards to unemployment figures during the Obama administration? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/75 "2018-02-01T06:39:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, not at all. But why should they give raises and bonuses to employees if those raises and bonuses are unnecessary to attract and maintain a workforce? > > The point is, is that the tax cut is not responsible for walmart finally being profitable enough that they can manage to increase their worker’s wages. > > The fact of them closing stores and laying off workers just goes to show that they have no particular loyalty to their employees, and do not just give these raises out of the goodness of their hearts. > > If they were using the tax savings to pay bonuses and raises because they love their employees so much that they would use the savings from the tax change to give to them, even if it didn’t make economic sense, they could have used the savings to keep the unprofitable stores open as well, as that would make as much sense as giving employees money that you don’t need to give them. Businesses don’t owe employees loyalty, let alone “love”. (Nor do employees owe the company). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/76 "2018-02-01T07:51:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m sorry, but are you saying there was no trend with regards to unemployment figures during the Obama administration? No, you see that from 2009 to January 2017 the president had nothing to do with the improvement in the economy. From Jan. 2017 to Jan. 2018 the president had everything to do with it. Must be due to all those things Trump promised to do the first day in office that he never quite got to. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/77 "2018-02-01T12:13:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Except no such trend exists. Guess who didn’t check with BLS before posting ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/78 "2018-02-01T14:19:38Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Guess who didn’t check with BLS before posting Are they the ones who issue fake numbers without regarding the President’s instructions? ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/79 "2018-02-01T14:44:16Z")
The fakest of fake numbers, those fakey fake fakers. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388/80 "2018-02-01T15:43:01Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Businesses don’t owe employees loyalty, let alone “love”. (Nor do employees owe the company). That is absolutely correct, and what I just said. Thank you for repeating my point that, just because a company has increased profits due to the tax cut, they will not decide to share those increased profits out of a sense of loyalty, or love, but only because they have to do that to attract and maintain their workforce. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bonuses-and-pay-raises-really/807388.md?page=5)