# Book Recommendation: Complex Experimental Surreal Books **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810 "2012-06-21T02:42:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![czxcjx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@czxcjx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/czxcjx)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/1 "2012-06-21T02:42:46Z")
I really LOVE those fiction books that actively try to screw with your head with experimental styles and breaking the 4th wall. Can anyone recommend me any books like these? So far those I’m aware off are - Pale Fire by Nabokov - Infinite Jest and The Pale King by David Foster Wallace - House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielslewski - Gravity’s Rainbow by Pynchon - Mulligan Stew by Gilbert Sorrentino - 2666 by Roberto Bolaño - If on a winter’s night a traveller by Italo Calvino The more philosophical conversations and random info-dumps thrown in the better, but it must still be at least in comprehensible English (unlike some works by Joyce). Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/2 "2012-06-21T03:14:48Z")
Some great choices listed (I’m a big fan of _Gravity’s Rainbow_, the rest of Pynchon is less spectacular). Some of Umberto Eco’s novels might fit the bill. I’m thinking of _Foucault’s Pendulum_, _The Island of the Day Before_ and _Baudolino_ in particular. Neal Stephenson’s _Baroque Cycle_ is almost entirely made up philosophical conversations and random info-dumps. It’s a lot to take on though so read _Cryptonomican_ first to see if you like his style. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/3 "2012-06-21T07:34:16Z")
_Feersum Endjin_ by Iain M. Banks _Dhalgren_ by Samuel Delany mildly, _Railsea_ by China Miéville has some metafictional elements ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/4 "2012-06-21T11:32:32Z")
You could try [The Arabian Nightmare](http://www.nthposition.com/thearabiannightmare.php) by **Robert Irwin**. Classic! Much older but somewhat similar in it’s multi-layered dream within a dream effect is [The Manuscript Found in Saragossa](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manuscript_Found_in_Saragossa) by **Jan Potocki**. Also made into an excellent film. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/5 "2012-06-21T12:20:23Z")
KI haven’t read any of his works myself, and I don’t know if there’s any fourth wall-breaking, but his novels are definitely experimental and “surreal”, especially in a technical sense. I had friends who were big fans back in the 1960s/1970s, when he was hot stuff. Richard Brautigan, especially in _Trout Fishing in America_ and _in Watermelon Sugar_. I usded to see _The Hawkline Monster: A Gothic Western_ all over the place, too. > **[Richard Brautigan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Brautigan)** > > Richard Gary Brautigan (January 30, 1935 – c. September 16, 1984) was an American novelist, poet, and short story writer. A prolific writer, he wrote throughout his life and published ten novels, two collections of short stories, and four books of poetry. Brautigan's work has been published both in the United States and internationally throughout Europe, Japan, and China. He is best known for his novels Trout Fishing in America (1967), In Watermelon Sugar (1968), and The Abortion: An Historic... ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/6 "2012-06-21T12:35:00Z")
John Barth, most notably **Coming Soon!!!: A Narrative, Giles Goat Boy, Lost in the Funhouse, Chimera,** and, if you dare, **LETTERS** (though to appreciate it, it helps if you’ve read his six previous books). Barth was doing metafiction before just about anyone else and even his most traditional seeming books (e.g., **The Sot-Weed Factor** , one of the greatest novels of the 20th century) are filled with literary tricks and subversion. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/7 "2012-06-21T12:36:43Z")
_Cloud Atlas_ by David Mitchell. ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/8 "2012-06-21T15:39:54Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Some great choices listed (I’m a big fan of _Gravity’s Rainbow_, the rest of Pynchon is less spectacular). > > Some of Umberto Eco’s novels might fit the bill. I’m thinking of _Foucault’s Pendulum_, _The Island of the Day Before_ and _Baudolino_ in particular. > > Neal Stephenson’s _Baroque Cycle_ is almost entirely made up philosophical conversations and random info-dumps. It’s a lot to take on though so read _Cryptonomican_ first to see if you like his style. I was going to recommend Neal Stephenson as well; however, there is a particularly gruesome scene which made me put the first book down and never want to look at it again. And I hadn’t even gotten to a major plot point yet. They vivisect a stray dog and keep it alive as long as possible while they crack it open and watch its insides working, and the dog’s cries are described thoroughly. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/9 "2012-06-21T17:48:12Z")
> [@czxcjx](#): > > I really LOVE those fiction books that actively try to screw with your head with experimental styles and breaking the 4th wall. Can anyone recommend me any books like these? > > So far those I’m aware off are > > - Pale Fire by Nabokov > - Infinite Jest and The Pale King by David Foster Wallace > - House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielslewski > - Gravity’s Rainbow by Pynchon > - Mulligan Stew by Gilbert Sorrentino > - 2666 by Roberto Bolaño > - If on a winter’s night a traveller by Italo Calvino > The more philosophical conversations and random info-dumps thrown in the better, but it must still be at least in comprehensible English (unlike some works by Joyce). > > Thanks! Look up Post-Modern lit in Wikipedia: [Postmodern literature - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodern_literature) Should keep you busy for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/10 "2012-06-21T18:05:36Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > _Cloud Atlas_ by David Mitchell. Heh I knew someone would beat me to this. Yes and again yes. For a classic look at mind-twisting lit, I recommend _The Master and Margarita_ and _The Man Who Was Thursday_. Also Primo Levi’s _The Periodic Table_ and just about everything by Jorge Luis Borges (particularly the collection _Ficciones_) ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/11 "2012-06-21T19:09:31Z")
I agree there are some great books in the original list. Since I love a number of them, perhaps you will enjoy some of my other favourites. The grandaddy of experimental novels is Sterne’s Tristram Shandy. Most modern experimental novels are developments of ides from Sterne, Joyce and Beckett (this is an exaggeration, but not an absurd one). Speaking of Beckett, his trilogy Molloy/Malone Dies/The Unnameable is another high point of experimental fiction. I would echo RealityChuck in recommending John Barth: The Sot-Weed Factor and Chimera are my favourites. Finally, William Gaddis’s The Recognitions is another excellent choice. ---
**Author:** ![Jabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@Jabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jabba)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/12 "2012-06-21T19:18:48Z")
I also meant to mention At Swim-Two-Birds by Flann O’Brien, but forgot in my first post. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/13 "2012-06-21T19:27:55Z")
> [@Jabba](#): > > I agree there are some great books in the original list. Since I love a number of them, perhaps you will enjoy some of my other favourites. The grandaddy of experimental novels is Sterne’s Tristram Shandy. Most modern experimental novels are developments of ides from Sterne, Joyce and Beckett (this is an exaggeration, but not an absurd one). I second Tristram Shandy. As said in the movie of it (good try, no cigar) it is a post modern novel before there was a modern to be post from. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/14 "2012-06-22T14:04:59Z")
> [@Jabba](#): > > I also meant to mention At Swim-Two-Birds by Flann O’Brien, but forgot in my first post. [A pint of plain is your only man](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIrX5MfNedM)! ---
**Author:** ![fighting\_ignorant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ac8455/32.png) [@fighting\_ignorant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fighting_ignorant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/15 "2012-06-22T14:29:17Z")
The Raw Shark Texts: A Novel by Steven Hall Permalink: [http://amzn.com/1841959111](http://amzn.com/1841959111) ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/16 "2012-06-22T19:45:56Z")
Lots of comics by Grant Morrison play with the 4th wall, in particular his Animal Man, the Zatanna miniseries of a few years ago, and his masterpiece, Invisibles. Invisibles in particular is all about philosophy, morality, and the difficulty of fighting for freedom without denigrating the freedom of those you’re fighting against. It’s also about drugs, sex, castrating juvenile delinquents, time travel, gun battles, and cthuloid monsters crossing into our dimention to rule humanity. That said, Zatanna has probably the single most effective moment of breaking the 4th wall, and it’s only 4 issues. It’s part of a much larger project (Seven Soldiers) which is great but very challenging and, unlike Invisibles, probably depends on some knowledge of/interest in comic books. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![diggerwam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@diggerwam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggerwam)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/17 "2012-06-22T20:28:10Z")
Finishing infinite jest is still one of my prouder moments. Good story even though right now I remember very little of it. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/18 "2012-06-22T20:30:58Z")
> [@fighting\_ignorant](#): > > The Raw Shark Texts: A Novel by Steven Hall > Permalink: [http://amzn.com/1841959111](http://amzn.com/1841959111) I came in to recommend this one. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/19 "2012-06-22T20:37:35Z")
Noone’s mentioned _The Illuminatus Trilogy_ by Robert Shea and robert Anton Wilson yet? Very much of it’s time, but still an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810/20 "2012-06-22T20:44:37Z")
[Fitzpatrick’s War](http://www.amazon.com/Fitzpatricks-War-Theodore-Judson/dp/0756401968) by Theodore Judson. The book is a fictional 50th anniversary, annotated biography of someone who is still in our future. So, you’re reading about the future from the POV of someone in the far far future who looks on it as history, and has a political viewpoint about that history that is different from the reader’s viewpoint and different from the putative author’s viewpoint as well . I mean, it’s no _Pale Fire_ but it’s pretty good. Better to read than describe, as these things often are. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-complex-experimental-surreal-books/625810.md?page=2)