# Book recommendation needed - Irish history **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2000, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451 "2000-10-10T19:36:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/1 "2000-10-10T19:36:16Z")
**MacDonaugh and MacBride And Connolly and Pearse Now and in time to be, Wherever green is worn Are changed, changed utterly; A terrible beauty is born.** I’ve been quoting the above lines and others from William Butler Yeats’ gut-wrenching poem “Easter 1916” for years. And I’m a stinking faker. I have only the vaguest notions of who MacDonaugh and MacBride and Connolly and Pearse were, or what they did. What’s the best one-volume history I can get that’ll give me a solid backgrounding in the Easter Rising, the Irish Citizens’ Army, and the founding of the Republic? ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/2 "2000-10-10T19:47:32Z")
I very highly recommend the following by Tim Pat Coogan: **The IRA: A History Michael Collins: The Man Who Made Ireland Eamon De Valera: The Man Who Was Ireland** I don’t know if they are the “best,” but they are darn good. I’m not sure which one would best meet your requirements; maybe **The IRA: A History** more so than the other two. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/3 "2000-10-10T20:04:17Z")
And purely for flavor, try the Irish historical fiction by Morgan Llewellyn. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/4 "2000-10-10T20:06:31Z")
BTW, Coogan is not pro-IRA. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/5 "2000-10-10T20:31:45Z")
**missbunny** got them before I did. They’re the best I’ve read about my countries recent history. **The IRA: A History** does seem to be the one you’re looking for. For a quick overview [http://home.fiac.net/marshaw/1916.htm](http://home.fiac.net/marshaw/1916.htm) As and aside I’m going to try to get the dopers that are over here this wkend to go to Killmainham Jail which is where the leaders of the rising were executed which is when _the terrible beauty was born_ ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/6 "2000-10-10T20:53:36Z")
" . . . Killmainham Jail which is where the leaders of the rising were executed which is when the terrible beauty was born . . ." Don’t be absurd, Jojimbo, I’m from Philadelphia and I’m not even close to 84 . . . What’s that, Ike? Oh . . . Never mind, it seems you were speaking of ANOTHER terrible beauty . . . ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/7 "2000-10-10T21:06:58Z")
**Eve** , [beauty](http://www.geocities.com/sdpeoplepages/eve.html) yes. Terrible, no 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/8 "2000-10-10T21:49:12Z")
When you get tired of being depressed by Irish history, try _How the Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story Of Irelands Heroic Role From The Fall Of Rome To Rise Of Medieval Europe_ by Thomas Cahill. ---
**Author:** ![JosephFinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JosephFinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JosephFinn)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/9 "2000-10-10T21:50:46Z")
I noticed when I was in Ireland last week that Tim Pat Coogan has a new book out titled **The Wearing of the Green** , about the Irish Diaspora (something like 70 million people on the planet can claim Irish ancestry, according to a news article about the book). Looked interesting, though I was amused to see an article that chastised Coogan basically for having a point of view as a historian. Well, Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick! What good historian doesn’t have a point of view? It’s not journalism, after all. Objectivity is not the point, as long as the verifiable facts are correct (and sometimes, the facts are not 100% verifiable, making an educated guess necessary). ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/10 "2000-10-10T22:35:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dropzone \* > \*\*When you get tired of being depressed by Irish history, try _How the Irish Saved Civilization: The Untold Story Of Irelands Heroic Role From The Fall Of Rome To Rise Of Medieval Europe_ by Thomas Cahill. > \*\* A very enjoyable book. Take it with a large grain of salt. Robert Kee’s _Ourselves Alone_ covers the era you’re interested in, Ike. It’s part of a three-volume series (all of which are recommended) but you don’t have to read the other two to understand what’s going on. Not always an easy read but very thorough. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2000, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/11 "2000-10-10T23:06:31Z")
Boy, this post is going to be useless. (I’m not drunk though.) I read a fine book (fiction) about the Irish “troubles” several years ago – can’t recall the name or the author. It was made into an also fine movie, with a new actor playing the lead (who’s since become famous, I think). Seems like the title might have included the name of one of the characters. Aaaaargh. It wasn’t “Trinity”, that’s all I’m sure of. It wasn’t “epic” at all, just a very well done little story. The book and movie were both well-received. Sorry Ike. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/12 "2000-10-11T00:51:23Z")
I second ruadh’s suggestion. The series is called _The Green Flag_ and I think it’s available in a single-volume paperback now. _Ireland: A Concise History_ by Conor Cruise O’Brien is also worth reading, and has the virtue of being, er, concise. ---
**Author:** ![Sassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sassy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/13 "2000-10-11T01:39:06Z")
If you haven’t seen the movie **Michael Collins** , see it immediately. While there are holes in it, there are also holes in the original story… and it gives a great visual of the place and times. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/14 "2000-10-11T03:08:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > **A very enjoyable book. Take it with a large grain of salt.** If one can wrestle one’s way through the entirely pointless Irish mythology–can you say “filler?” It should have been a magazine article. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/15 "2000-10-11T14:57:31Z")
Thank you for your suggestions, everyone… **Eve,** thank you for not making a Lucky Charms joke…er, not to sound like an ingrate, but are there any good histories of the period that are STILL IN PRINT? ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/16 "2000-10-11T16:20:12Z")
**missbunny** said: > [@](#): > > BTW, Coogan is not pro-IRA. Well…I can’t exactly say from my experiences listening to him that he’s against it, either. That, I suspect, has changed since I last saw him, about eight or so years ago. He seemed pretty neutral about it, actually. And he definitely didn’t discourage the pro-IRA prople at the talk I attended. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/17 "2000-10-11T17:01:14Z")
Necros, you are right, Coogan isn’t necessarily anti-IRA either. I believe that he calls himself a Nationalist rather than a Republican, and as far as the IRA goes, I think I remember him saying that he supports their ideals but not their methods or any terrorist group’s methods. I have heard that some pro-IRA Republicans think Coogan _is_ pro-IRA, probably because he doesn’t (as far as I know) outright condemn them. I consider him to be non-partisan; further, it is not in his best interest to alienate a group the reporting of whose history and beliefs have made him a success. Funnily enough (or maybe it’s really sadly), I live in a heavily Irish city, and whenever I read _The IRA: A History_ on the subway, I invariably get a couple of dirty looks. I think some people just see the big green “IRA” on the cover and think that somehow means I am supporting their activities. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/18 "2000-10-11T17:17:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by missbunny \* > **I live in a heavily Irish city, and whenever I read _The IRA: A History_ on the subway, I invariably get a couple of dirty looks.** Interesting…if I were to read it in the subway here in New York (or in Boston), I’d probably get folks offering to buy me a drink. What city do you live in? ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/19 "2000-10-11T18:12:37Z")
Uke, I am in Boston - but I don’t know any Irish-from-Ireland people currently living in this country (or Irish-Americans, for that matter) who are pro-IRA. That doesn’t mean that they don’t support the IRA’s wish for a united Ireland, but almost nobody would publicly admit to supporting the methods used by terrorists, and most of the Irish people I know consider the IRA just that - terrorists. I of course do not speak for all Irish people. ---
**Author:** ![Fyodor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/958977/32.png) [@Fyodor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fyodor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2000, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451/20 "2000-10-11T19:53:34Z")
If you want to delve a little further back in history “The Great Hunger” by Cecil (!) Woodham-Smith is a terrible story of state-sanctioned human suffering. The mid-1800s are not that long ago. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/book-recommendation-needed-irish-history/36451.md?page=2)