# Books akin to the prince or the art of war **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 29, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538 "2014-05-29T04:24:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/1 "2014-05-29T04:24:46Z")
What books are good about nakedly discussing power dynamics (in politics, in interpersonal relationships, within corporations, etc)? The two listed in the title usually come to mind as recommended books. I’ve read the art of war, but not the prince. These books are hundreds of years out of date though and were written back when the humanities (psychology, sociology, etc) were very embryonic compared to today. I enjoyed [The Dictator’s Handbook](http://www.amazon.com/The-Dictators-Handbook-Behavior-Politics/dp/1610391845/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1401337234&sr=8-1&keywords=dictators+handbook)by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. There is another version of [the dictators handbook](http://www.amazon.com/Dictators-Handbook-Practical-Manual-Aspiring/dp/0615652425/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1401337234&sr=8-2&keywords=dictators+handbook) by a different author that I’d like to read, but haven’t yet. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/2 "2014-05-29T04:41:08Z")
I suggest Thucydides’ History of the Peloponnesian War as the best thing ever done along these lines. One of the best histories ever written and covers the same ground as The Prince without being a step by step guide to evil, but rather a step by step guide to avoiding the consequences of evil. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/3 "2014-05-29T06:36:50Z")
> **[The 48 Laws of Power: Greene, Robert: 8601400945018: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.amazon.com/48-Laws-Power-Robert-Greene/dp/0140280197)** > > The 48 Laws of Power \[Greene, Robert\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The 48 Laws of Power **The 48 Laws of Power by Robert Greene** - meant to represent a distillation of a number of works and commentaries on power. **The Book of Five Rings** by Musashi. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/4 "2014-05-29T14:39:46Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I suggest Thucydides’ History of the Peloponnesian War as the best thing ever done along these lines. One of the best histories ever written and covers the same ground as The Prince without being a step by step guide to evil, but rather a step by step guide to avoiding the consequences of evil. Excellent recommendation. But in Macchiavelli’s defense, I don’t think he was evil or endorsed evil. He was a committed republican who went to prison for his ideals, after all. So, I don’t think he was actually a FAN of the evil Cesare Borgia- rather, I think he admired Borgia the way a zoologist might admire a tiger as a perfect killing machine. Macchiavelli recognized that, whether a leader is a good man OR a bad man, he needs to understand how to wield power and how to manipulate people. Lyndon Johnson understood how to wield power in Washington in a way more idealistic liberals did not. It wasn’t pretty, but through hook AND crook, though flattery AND threats, through sweet talk AND bribery, Johnson got the 1964 Civil Rights Act passed. - Thomas Hobbes’ _ **Leviathan** _ is worth a read, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/5 "2014-05-29T14:52:06Z")
You should read The Prince, its methods are still very much in use today in politics and business… **On War - Carl von Clausewitz** , is mostly about military strategy, but there’s a fair amount of political revelations if realpolitik does it for you. **Art of War - Napoleon** , Ditto ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/6 "2014-05-29T14:52:25Z")
Marx’s _On Capital_, for an economic view of power. Plato’s _The Republic_. Orwell’s _1984_, if you’d prefer a fictional account rather than essay format. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/7 "2014-05-29T15:40:39Z")
Maybe Luttwak’s **Coup d’Etat**. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/8 "2014-05-29T15:59:39Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > You should read The Prince, its methods are still very much in use today in politics and business… > > **On War - Carl von Clausewitz** , is mostly about military strategy, but there’s a fair amount of political revelations if realpolitik does it for you. Another in this vein is Alfred Mahan’s “The Influence of Sea Power upon History”. I’m reading Clausewitz now, and Mahan after that. The biggest problem with both of these is that technology has changed the shape of the results of applying the theories. Sun Tzu is a trip. The text is vague to the point of surrealism, yet he captures a number of crucial strategic elements. Sometimes I think his pithy little sayings would be great to replace I Ching oracular statements; cast the hexagrams and ponder the result. Just as with I Ching, they’re more useful as questions to ponder when considering the current situation, than as predictions or prescriptions (or theories). ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/9 "2014-05-29T16:50:09Z")
The Seven Military Classics of Ancient China: > **[The Seven Military Classics Of Ancient China (History and Warfare): Sawyer,...](https://www.amazon.com/Military-Classics-Ancient-History-Warfare/dp/0465003044)** > > The Seven Military Classics Of Ancient China (History and Warfare) \[Sawyer, Ralph D.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. The Seven Military Classics Of Ancient China (History and Warfare) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/10 "2014-05-29T18:56:50Z")
Before one casts aspersions on Machiavelli, one should read the _Discourses on Livy_. That will give you more perspective on what he really believed. Wiki has a page devoted to the [“mirrors for princes”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirrors_for_princes) genre (I prefer the Latinized version: “speculum for princes” 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/11 "2014-05-29T19:22:52Z")
I highly recommend these books, which have a lot of good, practical advice for anyone interested in leadership and making any organization better: > **[Lincoln on Leadership: Executive Strategies for Tough Times: Phillips, Donald...](https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Leadership-Executive-Strategies-Tough/dp/0446394599)** > > Lincoln on Leadership: Executive Strategies for Tough Times \[Phillips, Donald T.\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Lincoln on Leadership: Executive Strategies for Tough Times > **[It's Your Ship: Management Techniques from the Best Damn Ship in the Navy, 10th...](https://www.amazon.com/Its-Your-Ship-Management-Anniversary/dp/145552302X)** > > It's Your Ship: Management Techniques from the Best Damn Ship in the Navy, 10th Anniversary Edition \[Abrashoff, Captain D. Michael\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. It's Your Ship: Management Techniques from the Best Damn Ship in... ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-akin-to-the-prince-or-the-art-of-war/689538/12 "2014-05-30T12:25:23Z")
Another vote for Art of War and 48 Laws of Power.