# Books: "THE YELLOW WALLPAPER" and "THE AWAKENING" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 7, 2019, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164 "2019-04-07T08:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/1 "2019-04-07T08:18:14Z")
Most of the books in the Project Gutenberg top 100 I’ve read. > **[Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/scores/top)** > > Project Gutenberg is a library of free eBooks. Most of the rest I’ve heard of and decided not to read. There’s a few where I only know the author. And then, in the top 20, there are ‘The Yellow Wallpaper’, by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, and ‘The Awakening’ by Kate Chopin. Two books I’ve never heard of, by authors I’ve never heard of, that, on examination, are not books or authors I am glad to have learned about. The total number of downloads from Project Gutenberg is a of our modern level of literacy, and it wouldn’t be hard to push a book into the top 100. But what are these two books doing there? Are they on a school curriculum? Do people think they are politically or socially important? Is it “Literature” which appeals to an audience of which I am not a member? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/2 "2019-04-07T09:28:25Z")
Those are the two most prominent American early feminist classics. They ought to be required reading for any course on American women’s cultural history. _The Awakening_ is about a woman discovering her inner self and desires. _The Yellow Wallpaper_ is about a woman whose inner self is practically destroyed by her husband. Both are indispensable literature. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/3 "2019-04-07T09:33:32Z")
The novel _Herland_ and the short story “The Yellow Wallpaper” by Gilman are moderately well known in literary circles recently. So is the novel _The Awakening_ by Chopin. It’s not that surprising that they are on the list. The items on the list that I’m surprised by are _The Romance of Lust_, _The Desert Healer_, _The Seven Conundrums_, _Legendary Tales of the Highlands_, _Mr. and Mrs. Sên_, _My Secret Life_, _The American Journal of Photography_, _Minna and Myself_, and _North of 36_. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/4 "2019-04-07T09:36:00Z")
Both of them are described on Wikipedia as early examples of feminist literature which, yes, do form part of literature curricula. I hadn’t heard of them before either, but I just read ‘The Yellow Wallpaper’ and I’d call it a good, thought provoking short story. The writing is a bit involved by modern standards, but a lot of nineteenth century literature is. Maybe a little too much melodrama? Victorians loved their melodrama - even good writers like Charlotte Bronte and Charles Dickens can lay the trowel on a bit, at times. But the main theme of it was the degree of control a woman could exert over her own life in the face of well-meaning (_probably_ well-meaning) paternalism and dismissal of her actual experiences, and that was a thing that it was particularly important to write about at the time If you don’t have an interest in the Victorian era, and particularly the position of women in the Victorian era, you are probably not the audience for these works. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/5 "2019-04-07T14:44:32Z")
I’m familiar with _The Yellow Wallpaper_, because I’ve subbed for high school English classes that were studying it. While the themes are certainly relevant, I wouldn’t say it’s a particularly gripping or otherwise entertaining story. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/6 "2019-04-07T15:13:13Z")
Forget the feminism angle: “The Yellow Wallpaper” is a first-class psychological horror story by any measure. It deals with the same themes that made _The Tenant_ one of the best horror films ever. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/7 "2019-04-07T15:39:19Z")
Melbourne, I would really like to know if you were familiar with _The Romance of Lust_, _The Desert Healer_, _The Seven Conundrums_, _Legendary Tales of the Highlands_, _Mr. and Mrs. Sên_, _My Secret Life_, _The American Journal of Photography_, _Minna and Myself_, and _North of 36_, all of which really surprised me. That assumes that you saw the same version of the list that I did. Take a look at the list you’ve linked to again. Notice that the list changes every single day, since it’s based on the downloads from the previous day. This is not remotely a long-term list of frequent downloads. The list isn’t really that important then. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/8 "2019-04-07T16:03:08Z")
Part of the reason you may not have heard of the “book” “The Yellow Wallpaper” is that it is, as noted, a short story. It’s often anthologized, but rather short to appear in a single print volume. But when it comes to public domain e-books, there’s no reason a popular short story (or essay, or other short work) can’t be “published” by itself, especially when it’s the most famous thing its author ever wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/9 "2019-04-07T16:20:54Z")
Actually, there’s a book available at the moment called _The Yellow Wall-Paper, Herland, and Selected Writings_ by Gilman and another by Gilman called _The Yellow Wallpaper and Other Stories_. It’s not surprising then that a volume of Gilman’s works might be called _The Yellow Wallpaper, blah, blah, blah_. Sometimes a volume of short stories is called by the most famous short story in it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/10 "2019-04-07T18:05:09Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Forget the feminism angle I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/11 "2019-04-07T20:09:58Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I won’t. Yeah, I wouldn’t either! Hoping it was a clumsy way of saying “Aside from the feminist angle…” rather than what it sounds like. If nothing else, it seems…odd…to divorce the story from the question of women’s treatment in that time and place. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/12 "2019-04-07T20:38:35Z")
Yeah, I interpreted it as meaning “even aside from…”, not “you shouldn’t care about…”. Though I’m sure that **RealityChuck** can clarify his own intentions. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/13 "2019-04-07T21:02:02Z")
I read _The Awakening_ in a college literature class, and wrote a paper on it, so there’s that. Do college literature students still read books and write papers? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/14 "2019-04-07T22:58:50Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I won’t. I phrased that poorly: Even if you ignore the feminism, it’s a damn good story. The feminist themes only add to it. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/15 "2019-04-07T23:34:52Z")
My daughter is in high school, she recently had to read The Yellow Wallpaper, and she’ll be reading The Awakening. I’d never heard of The Yellow Wallpaper, but I had heard of The Awakening and Kate Chopin. I did read The Yellow Wallpaper when she did only because as mentioned it’s a short story. I’ve never read The Awakening. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/16 "2019-04-08T04:11:35Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Melbourne, I would really like to know if you were familiar with _The Romance of Lust_, _The Desert Healer_, _The Seven Conundrums_, _Legendary Tales of the Highlands_, _Mr. and Mrs. Sên_, _My Secret Life_, _The American Journal of Photography_, _Minna and Myself_, and _North of 36_, all of which really surprised me. That assumes that you saw the same version of the list that I did. Take a look at the list you’ve linked to again. Notice that the list changes every single day, since it’s based on the downloads from the previous day. This is not remotely a long-term list of frequent downloads. The list isn’t really that important then. Never heard of them, hadn’t realised that I’d pointed to the wrong page, found the wrong page when composing the question. I was looking at the more stable list — > **[All Books (sorted by popularity)](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?sort_order=downloads)** > > Project Gutenberg offers 73,321 free eBooks for Kindle, iPad, Nook, Android, and iPhone. when I thought of the question. I accidently found the 'top" daily when I went back to find it again. The two books were the /only/ surprises in the all-time top 25 (although it’s surprising to see “Crime and Punishment” English edition, listed there with a Russian title). Moving on to the next all-time 25, their are 5 I haven’t read, including 1 author I’ve never heard of: Lucian’s True History by of Samosata Lucian. I’ve not read DeBoise or Douglas, but they aren’t in libraries here and weren’t known to my parents. (I did most of my reading when young). “Anonymous” I haven’t read, but one look at the title “The Romance of Lust” tells me exactly why it’s there. I’ve not read Montaigne, not in the library, not in the bookshops, and I probably won’t now – but now that it’s in Gutenberg, that’s just laziness on my part. I hadn’t realized that I’d pointed you all to a daily download page. I might not have thought anything of it if I’d started at the daily download page. The real list is obviously the result of all kinds of factors — “The Dolls House” is never going to go viral on youtube – I was just interested to see something I didn’t understand. Thanks all for responding. You may all now tell me what you think of the other books 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2019, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/17 "2019-04-08T11:47:10Z")
When I look at the list you actually used, Melbourne, the only books in the top 100 that I hadn’t heard of before are the following: _The Romance of Lust_ _My Secret Life, Volumes I. to III._ _Noli Me Tangere_ _The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano_ It’s a little strange that they frequently give the untranslated title, but so what? It’s interesting that there are four books in the top 100 that I hadn’t heard of, but so what? I never thought that I knew about every well-known book. I don’t really find the list to be very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/18 "2019-04-09T00:17:48Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > When I look at the list you actually used, Melbourne, the only books in the top 100 that I hadn’t heard of before are the following: > > _The Romance of Lust_ > _My Secret Life, Volumes I. to III._ > _Noli Me Tangere_ > _The Interesting Narrative of the Life of Olaudah Equiano_ > > It’s a little strange that they frequently give the untranslated title, but so what? It’s interesting that there are four books in the top 100 that I hadn’t heard of, but so what? I never thought that I knew about every well-known book. I don’t really find the list to be very interesting. Well, interesting enough so that when specifically asked about it you constructed a reply:) But yes, you might have been more surprised to find titles your didn’t know on the first page, and perhaps as a reader who has read a lot of books you might have wondered why? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164/19 "2019-04-09T01:26:42Z")
Well, for a long time I collected lists of what people considered to be the Great Books. Occasionally I would buy some of them to add to my library. It became clear to me that no matter how many such lists I collected, there was a very good chance that the next list I found would contain a book that I had never heard of before. I gave up collecting such lists because I wanted to avoid my apartment exploding from the piles of books. I still collect list of movies that people recommend. I’ve merged those lists into an alphabetical list of such movies. It now contains about 10,000 such films. Still though, when I add the movies in a new list that I’ve just found, there will be some I’ve never heard of before.